eirbus06
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:44 am

Excess Paint

Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:15 pm

Just saw the below photo of the United 747 and it seems under the fresh(ish) paint job,the old gray livery seems to be peeking through!

Question 1: How often doe's this happen?

Question 2: Why would any airline carry 2 coats (or however many coats) of paint when most airlines nowadays are trying to shed weight?



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Photo © George Canciani

 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: Excess Paint

Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:21 pm



Quoting Eirbus06 (Thread starter):
How often doe's this happen?

Very, in the leased world anyways.

Quoting Eirbus06 (Thread starter):
Question 2: Why would any airline carry 2 coats (or however many coats) of paint when most airlines nowadays are trying to shed weight?

$$$, it is called "Scuff and Squirt." It is more economical to sand the existing paint, prime and top-coat than it is to mask, strip, prepare, prime and paint. Sometimes you get a door that you start sanding to get to rivet heads and you run across several liveries.
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SFOMB67
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:20 pm

RE: Excess Paint

Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:06 am

Where do you see the gray peeking thru ? I really can't see it. Also, a lot of the surfaces, especially on the tail, are composite and have to be sanded, not stripped. Since most, if not all, paint jobs are done by outside vendors, they are probably just scuffed. After all, they're in business to make $$$$$.
Not as easy as originally perceived
 
eirbus06
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:44 am

RE: Excess Paint

Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:18 pm



Quoting Sfomb67 (Reply 2):
Where do you see the gray peeking thru ? I really can't see it.

Above the "E" in the united titles,Up and left of the right-hand winglet.  Smile

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 1):
$$$, it is called "Scuff and Squirt." It is more economical to sand the existing paint, prime and top-coat than it is to mask, strip, prepare, prime and paint. Sometimes you get a door that you start sanding to get to rivet heads and you run across several liveries



Quoting Sfomb67 (Reply 2):
Also, a lot of the surfaces, especially on the tail, are composite and have to be sanded, not stripped. Since most, if not all, paint jobs are done by outside vendors, they are probably just scuffed.

Thanx for the quick replies.
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: Excess Paint

Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:30 pm



Quoting Sfomb67 (Reply 2):
Since most, if not all, paint jobs are done by outside vendors, they are probably just scuffed. After all, they're in business to make $$$$$.

And the outside vendors have their "Oh Shit" moments and poke their man-lifts thru the stams or fairings, cause $$$ in damage too...
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SFOMB67
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:20 pm

RE: Excess Paint

Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:31 am

After blowing the picture way up, I see where paint is peeling off all over! Doesn't say much for the paint job. But, you get what you pay for.
Not as easy as originally perceived
 
spencer
Posts: 1518
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RE: Excess Paint

Thu May 01, 2008 7:41 pm

A scuff pad, in most cases, is just as effective as a sanding disc. The major cause of peeling paintwork is a poorly prepared surface, where dirt or grease hasn't been cleared prior to paint. That combined with, say, a highpoint such as a rivet or join, (whereby it's more prone to wear and tear), would be a prime example of where to look for damaged paintwork.
Spencer.
EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
 
KELPkid
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Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Excess Paint

Thu May 01, 2008 8:09 pm

Is the rudder handled any differently? I know that re-painting the rudder=automatic rebalance...would you want to strip it down to the bare metal?
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spencer
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RE: Excess Paint

Fri May 02, 2008 7:48 am

A total strip is normally only done with a D-check. And yes, generally a rudder rebalance is due after paint.
Spencer.
EOS1D4, 7D, 30D, 100-400/4.5-5.6 L IS USM, 70-200/2.8 L IS2 USM, 17-40 f4 L USM, 24-105 f4 L IS USM, 85 f1.8 USM
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: Excess Paint

Fri May 02, 2008 10:53 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 7):
Is the rudder handled any differently? I know that re-painting the rudder=automatic rebalance...would you want to strip it down to the bare metal?

In most cases if you strip and re-paint a control surface or tab, you have to re-balance it; as with the addition of any repairs. So it comes down, has a trial weight and balance, paint, balance and install. In some cases the balancing may be done by calculation so you don't have to remove it, but there is a lot of variation in the data.

Some surfaces are composite, so ixnay on the stripping unless you want to buy another rudder. The paint on composite surfaces is blasted away using different media such as baking soda and/or dry ice. Sanding down the paint is not a preferred method either as going too deep will damage the fiber plies.

[Edited 2008-05-02 03:55:27]
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twal1011727
Posts: 449
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:36 am

RE: Excess Paint

Wed May 07, 2008 12:30 am



Quoting Sfomb67 (Reply 5):
Doesn't say much for the paint job. But, you get what you pay for.

IIRC a Delta Mechanic told me that the EPA (or some other Gov't agency)
mandated a less environmentally harmful type of paint.
This paint does not last nearly as long as previous paints.

KD
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Excess Paint

Wed May 07, 2008 2:01 am

You want an example of excess paint? The following photo was taken in 1990 at Piarco International Airport when BWIA was changing their livery. They painted their aircraft in the hanger during a C-Check, painting was done on night shift. They never stripped the fuselage just scuff and re-paint.

Big version: Width: 1162 Height: 791 File size: 355kb
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: Excess Paint

Wed May 07, 2008 11:02 am



Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 10):
IIRC a Delta Mechanic told me that the EPA (or some other Gov't agency)
mandated a less environmentally harmful type of paint.

Paint is hazardous because of the pigments and solids. The paint you are referring to is called the "High Solids." It is not less harfull.
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