threefourthree
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If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Thu May 15, 2008 6:43 am

What would happen if you water instead of air inside an airplane tire, even like a car or bike tire?
 
rwessel
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Thu May 15, 2008 8:52 am

They'd be really heavy. The ride and handling would be terrible. And you'd probably blow the rim seals or valve stem seat at the first medium sized pothole or bump, if you don't flatly blow the sidewalls off the rim instead.

If you hit a big enough bump at a high enough speed, you might actually get the sidewall to burst.

And you'd probably get a major talking to and/or spanking, for having done such a foolish thing...  Wink
 
oly720man
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Thu May 15, 2008 10:17 am



Quoting ThreeFourThree (Thread starter):
What would happen if you water instead of air inside an airplane tire, even like a car or bike tire?

It could well be a little dangerous if you overcooked the brakes.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
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larshjort
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Thu May 15, 2008 10:25 am

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 2):
It could well be a little dangerous if you overcooked the brakes.

There would be plenty of water to put out the fire/cool of the brakes   

/Lars

[Edited 2008-05-15 03:26:40]
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dragon6172
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Thu May 15, 2008 11:32 am

Liquids do not compress. The only cushion would come from the softness of the rubber. If you had any sort of air pocket that allowed the water to slosh, you would not be able to balance it properly and would probably wear out the wheel bearings quickly.
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dstc47
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Thu May 15, 2008 1:01 pm

And when you take off and the water freezes due to extreme cold in the wheel well you might also be sorry. Aviation tyres are amazing items, going from freezing cold to really, really hot in seconds.
 
NKP S2
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Thu May 15, 2008 1:05 pm



Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 4):
Liquids do not compress

Exactly. Water will not compress, while air can. If you deform the water filled tire enough to cause the displacement of said water to exceed the volume available, you'll either leak out through the bead ( tire/wheel seal ) or burst the tire.
 
nomadd22
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Thu May 15, 2008 3:08 pm

You best figure the gyro factor. It's would be pretty hard to turn a wheel that massive when it's spinning at high speed. The centrifigul force would probably be enough to seperate the tire from the bead even without hitting any bumps.
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KELPkid
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Thu May 15, 2008 6:26 pm



Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 8):
You best figure the gyro factor. It's would be pretty hard to turn a wheel that massive when it's spinning at high speed. The centrifigul force would probably be enough to seperate the tire from the bead even without hitting any bumps.

Aww, man. I'm still wondering why World War II fighters didn't use rotary engines  old 
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Zuluaviator994
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Thu May 15, 2008 9:13 pm



Quoting NKP S2 (Reply 6):
xactly. Water will not compress, while air can. If you deform the water filled tire enough to cause the displacement of said water to exceed the volume available, you'll either leak out through the bead ( tire/wheel seal ) or burst the tire.

Isn't Nitrogen used? I'm pretty sure that if the tyres were filled with air they WOULD burst, maybe in flames  bomb   covereyes   flamed 
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SEPilot
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Thu May 15, 2008 9:27 pm

Tractor tires typically use a calcium chloride solution for weight. They leave about 25% of the volume for air to provide cushioning. They do not perform at all well at speed, as anyone who has driven a tractor on the road can tell you. But seeing as how more weight is the last thing that an airplane needs, it makes just as much sense as to build the plane out of lead.
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KELPkid
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Thu May 15, 2008 9:28 pm



Quoting ZuluAviator994 (Reply 12):
Isn't Nitrogen used? I'm pretty sure that if the tyres were filled with air they WOULD burst, maybe in flames

It depends. I'm sure airliners and other jets use nitrogen, however I have filled Cessna tires myself when they are low with lowly air...I know that some mechanics will fill GA plane tires with nitrogen, however I don't think it's as critical on GA planes as it is on jets...  Wink
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JER757
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Fri May 16, 2008 12:49 am

Quoting ZuluAviator994 (Reply 12):
sn't Nitrogen used?

Yup, for a couple of reasons. Firstly if plain air was pumped into the tyres (approx 20% O2 content) it would increase the rate of oxidation of the tyre, weakening it substantially. Nitrogen is inert and therefore won't oxidise the tyres.

Air also carries a relatively high amount of moisture, allowing this to freeze inside the tyre at the low temps experienced at altitude could result in destabilising the wheel or lacerating the tyre itself on landing... now imagine if it was all water/ice in there!

[Edited 2008-05-15 18:18:03]
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Zuluaviator994
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Fri May 16, 2008 1:18 am

Ok, Thanks KelpKid and JER757, thats what I was thinking Big grin
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T prop
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Fri May 16, 2008 2:53 am



Quoting JER757 (Reply 15):
Yup, for a couple of reasons. Firstly if plain air was pumped into the tyres (approx 20% O2 content) it would increase the rate of oxidation of the tyre, weakening it substantially. Nitrogen is inert and therefore won't oxidise the tyres.

Air also carries a relatively high amount of moisture, allowing this to freeze inside the tyre at the low temps experienced at altitude could result in destabilising the wheel or lacerating the tyre itself on landing... now imagine if it was all water/ice in there!

Here is a better reason to use N2 in aircraft tires. I believe a 727 and all on board were lost due to a tire explosion years ago.
 
threefourthree
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Fri May 16, 2008 7:04 am



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 14):
Tractor tires typically use a calcium chloride solution for weight

It's funny you say that because today in school, did a chemical reaction between calcium carbonate and hydrochloric acid which produced Calcium chloride + Water + Carbon Dioxide.

So if you put water in, its not a good idea at all I guess
 
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larshjort
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Fri May 16, 2008 7:08 am

What about air in the shockstrut? According to the jobguide I had to extend the shockstrut and then fill in nitrogen , but that would allow some air into the strut. It's a recent change to the jobguide.

/Lars
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NKP S2
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Sun May 18, 2008 12:39 am

Quoting ZuluAviator994 (Reply 12):
Isn't Nitrogen used?

Yes it is Mr Hairsplitter Smile For the purposes of this discussion, I believe the generic term "air" is just fine insofar as nitrogen is compressible as well.

[Edited 2008-05-17 17:49:17]
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Sun May 18, 2008 9:55 am

What about corrosion issues with the Wheel hub assy from the Water.
regds
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Zuluaviator994
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Sun May 18, 2008 4:02 pm



Quoting NKP S2 (Reply 17):
Yes it is Mr Hairsplitter 

Well great, thanks  Wink Now I'm a hairsplitter...whatever will i do?  Wink
lol,, sorry, i like details  bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup 
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aer lingus
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Mon May 19, 2008 1:40 pm

I think solid rubber tyres is the solution.
It will never go flat, never burst and it lasts very long too I suppose.
But then theres a problem, weight.
How come everything has a disadvantage?

 bigthumbsup 
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EMBQA
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Mon May 19, 2008 4:18 pm



Quoting ZuluAviator994 (Reply 9):
I'm pretty sure that if the tyres were filled with air they WOULD burst, maybe in flames

Aaaah NO.... Nitrogen is used as it contains no water and will not corrode the wheel hubs... plus nitrogen does not react to temprature changes as 'air' does. ...and how can 'air' burst into flames without a fuel source...???
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KELPkid
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Mon May 19, 2008 6:07 pm



Quoting Aer lingus (Reply 20):
I think solid rubber tyres is the solution.
It will never go flat, never burst and it lasts very long too I suppose.
But then theres a problem, weight.
How come everything has a disadvantage?

Another problem would be the high gyroscopic forces of the large amounts of rotating mass...in that sense, not much different from the problems posed by water, although perhaps solid rubber would weigh far less  Wink

You would probably have to re-tread solid rubber quite often, too...those water grooves are there on aircraft tires for a reason-to prevent hydroplaning.

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tdscanuck
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Wed May 21, 2008 1:55 am



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 21):
Quoting ZuluAviator994 (Reply 9):
I'm pretty sure that if the tyres were filled with air they WOULD burst, maybe in flames

Aaaah NO.... Nitrogen is used as it contains no water and will not corrode the wheel hubs... plus nitrogen does not react to temprature changes as 'air' does. ...and how can 'air' burst into flames without a fuel source...???

Aaaah yes.

Rubber outgases when it gets hot. Some of the outgas compounds are flammable. If you have air in the tires, you end up with a hot mixture of flammable gas and oxygen when taxing at high gross weights. Airplane tires have exploded for this very reason. Fill the tire with nitrogen and you have an inert environment, hence no boom.

Tom.
 
ThirtyEcho
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Wed May 21, 2008 6:30 am

Hell, why don't we mandate tires filled with concrete? In fact, we could eliminate the rubber, altogether, and have the same tires on airplanes as Barney has on his car in The Flintstones; solid granite.

That would be the same as filling tires with water.

Go ahead and try this with your car; get back to us with the results and tell us if your insurance company covered the damage.
 
Zuluaviator994
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RE: If You Were To Put Water In Tires?

Wed May 28, 2008 9:23 pm



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 23):
Aaaah yes.

Rubber outgases when it gets hot. Some of the outgas compounds are flammable. If you have air in the tires, you end up with a hot mixture of flammable gas and oxygen when taxing at high gross weights. Airplane tires have exploded for this very reason. Fill the tire with nitrogen and you have an inert environment, hence no boom.

Thanks, I probably would have said that, just a little less technical  highfive 
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