tommybp251b
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Why No Nose-door On A Converted 747?

Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:25 am

Hi everybody!

I just would like to ask, why it is not possible to install a nose door on the 747s which are converted to a Freighter. What is the reason for this? Would it make to much damage to the frame? Are their some problems with cables which are lying in the affected area?

Thank you for answers.

Best Regards Tom
Tom from Cologne
 
point8six
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RE: Why No Nose-door On A Converted 747?

Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:31 am

Probably cost. The nose-door is not always used.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why No Nose-door On A Converted 747?

Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:24 am

Anything is possible but that's one expensive mod. I imagine you'll have to do a lot of rewiring if nothing else. Also you'd have to certify the mod first. A side door is a much simpler mod.

While the nose door is useful, you can easily use a side door for the vast majority of cargoes. The nose door may save you some time, but it's still not worth it.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
744rules
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RE: Why No Nose-door On A Converted 747?

Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:15 pm

Note that on a 747 with nose door only, the risk of tipping is much higher, compaired to side door loading/offloading
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Why No Nose-door On A Converted 747?

Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:59 pm



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
While the nose door is useful, you can easily use a side door for the vast majority of cargoes. The nose door may save you some time, but it's still not worth it.

Interestingly enough, the ground turn times computed by Boeing are much shorter with a nose/side door combo when compared to a side door only. IIRC, it's about 30 minutes more for the side door only. Most companies, while not needing the nose door except for specific cargo, do use it to load both ends at the same time. Especially if you have lower height dense pallets that can pass through the restricted height area in the nose.

Quoting TommyBP251b (Thread starter):

I just would like to ask, why it is not possible to install a nose door on the 747s which are converted to a Freighter. What is the reason for this? Would it make to much damage to the frame? Are their some problems with cables which are lying in the affected area?

Quite simple. $$$$ No one has ever wanted to pay the cost involved for the STC certification.
Fly fast, live slow
 
Tod
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RE: Why No Nose-door On A Converted 747?

Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:42 pm



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 4):
Quite simple. $$$$ No one has ever wanted to pay the cost involved for the STC certification.

Exactly.
Without access to the Boeing TC data, reinventing that wheel would be more than the plane is worth.
 
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jetmech
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RE: Why No Nose-door On A Converted 747?

Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:47 pm



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 4):
Interestingly enough, the ground turn times computed by Boeing are much shorter with a nose/side door combo when compared to a side door only. IIRC, it's about 30 minutes more for the side door only.

I agree. Most 747 freighters I have seen at SYD usually use the nose door if so equipped. It is extremely useful for long items. I once witnessed the unloading of a large stainless steel commercial food processing piece of equipment from the nose door of a 747. This piece of equipment was easily 10 or 12 metres long, and almost as large as the nose door aperture in cross section. I have my doubts if it could have being taken aboard by the side door.

Regards, JetMech
JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair :shock: .
 
tommybp251b
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RE: Why No Nose-door On A Converted 747?

Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:05 pm



Quoting 744rules (Reply 3):
Note that on a 747 with nose door only, the risk of tipping is much higher, compaired to side door loading/offloading

I thought about installing both and not only installing a nose door.

Thx for your answers.

Regards Tom
Tom from Cologne
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why No Nose-door On A Converted 747?

Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:56 pm



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 4):
Interestingly enough, the ground turn times computed by Boeing are much shorter with a nose/side door combo when compared to a side door only. IIRC, it's about 30 minutes more for the side door only. Most companies, while not needing the nose door except for specific cargo, do use it to load both ends at the same time. Especially if you have lower height dense pallets that can pass through the restricted height area in the nose.

I was unclear. I meant it's not worth certifying and installing it. Of course the nose door is a big advantage in operations once you have it.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Why No Nose-door On A Converted 747?

Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:37 am



Quoting TommyBP251b (Thread starter):
I just would like to ask, why it is not possible to install a nose door on the 747s which are converted to a Freighter.

It's possible, just not economical.

Quoting Tod (Reply 5):
Without access to the Boeing TC data, reinventing that wheel would be more than the plane is worth.

Even if you had the TC data, it would be a ferociously complex mod. The fuselage structure on a non-nose-door 747 would need to enormously modified to take the extra loads. This is similar to the structural issues with installing a side door, but much larger in magnitude.

Tom.
 
Mendaero
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RE: Why No Nose-door On A Converted 747?

Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:26 am



Quoting JetMech (Reply 6):
Most 747 freighters I have seen at SYD usually use the nose door if so equipped

I would have to say the opposite, I cant remember the last time i've seen a nose door opened at SYD. Every Atlas 744F, I have arrived (mostly leave empty), they only use the side door.
 
speedmarque
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RE: Why No Nose-door On A Converted 747?

Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:22 pm

I am not sure but having looked at a few 747s up close (usually waiting for transport to crew car park after a flight) it seems like there is a seam or crease in section 41 (?) roughly where the door is on a cargo 747.

Is this true?
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Why No Nose-door On A Converted 747?

Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:18 pm



Quoting Speedmarque (Reply 11):
I am not sure but having looked at a few 747s up close (usually waiting for transport to crew car park after a flight) it seems like there is a seam or crease in section 41 (?) roughly where the door is on a cargo 747.

It's probably a butt splice in the fuselage. It would make some of the tooling simpler if they held the same lengths for each section, if if they weren't fitting a nose door.

Tom.
 
johnclipper
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RE: Why No Nose-door On A Converted 747?

Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:41 am

SCDs can accomodate higher pallets than through the nose. Also there are a FEW early B747-200Fs that were flying around that were built with only the swing nose door - no SCD. D-ABYE comes to mind.

[Edited 2008-06-24 00:47:31]
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