africawings
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:47 am

Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:28 pm

With today's outrageous fuel prices, does anyone know which is the most fuel efficient commercial aircraft out there (over 150 passengers) in terms of flying costs per per seat mile?
 
planewasted
Posts: 460
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:47 pm

RE: Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:38 pm

A380 I think, if you don't care about cargo.

BUT the A380 is very expensive to buy, and if you include that in the calculations there's probably another answer.
 
cloudy
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:23 pm

RE: Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:09 pm



Quoting PlaneWasted (Reply 1):
BUT the A380 is very expensive to buy

I wouldn't think it is expensive to buy on a per-seat basis, which is the relevant measure to
use in answering this question.

Not only is the 747-8 in the running if you include cargo, but the soon-to-be available A350 and the 787-9/10 would also be in the same ballpark. At least, that is what I gather from what is available on the web.

The 757-300 is very efficient if you don't consider cargo capacity, but certainly not as efficient as an A380 operating at its design range. But my guess is that for US Transcon range or shorter, it beats any widebody older than the 787-8.
 
9VSIO
Posts: 653
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:00 pm

RE: Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:51 am

Does a converted C-5 count?
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17053
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:13 am



Quoting 9VSIO (Reply 3):
Does a converted C-5 count?

Heh. Can it be pressurized?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1978
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:43 am

What about the 77W, where does that stack up?
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:52 am



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
Heh. Can it be pressurized?

The C-5 is pressurized?
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17053
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:39 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 6):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
Heh. Can it be pressurized?

The C-5 is pressurized?

I don't think so, which is why I stated my question.  Wink
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:13 am

http://theaviationspecialist.com/lh_fuel_burn_compare.jpg

This should answer most of your questions. It looks like until the introduction of the A380, the A330-300 was most efficient. The A380 barely edges out the A330-300, and the 787-8 when in commercial service, will barely edge out the A380.

[Edited 2008-06-17 21:18:56]
 
WingedMigrator
Posts: 1767
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:45 am

RE: Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:55 am

My meager contribution, from a model based on the Breguet range equation. Stage length is 6000 nm, and payload is 1 pax (95 kg) per square meter of cabin floor area. This chart was created before the 787 was delayed and got heavier.

Big version: Width: 889 Height: 630 File size: 98kb
The evolution of fuel burn, at 1 pax / m2, with more types added


The thread to go with it: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/199839

A note in passing, the chart posted above by FlyF15 was created by WidebodyPhotog (to whom a lot of credit is due in the above cited thread)

In answer to the OP, the most fuel-efficient airliner flying today is the A380-800. The most fuel-efficient airliner likely to fly in the next 10 years is the A380-900, assuming it gets built.
 
WingedMigrator
Posts: 1767
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:45 am

RE: Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:18 am



Quoting Africawings (Thread starter):
Does a converted C-5 count?

A lot of people seem to have the mistaken impression that the C-5 is bigger than the A380.

 no 

Maybe this is because most people who have seen a C-5 up close have never seen an A380. The A380 is significantly bigger than the C-5 in almost every metric, whether by wing area, MTOW, empty weight, wing span, engine thrust, etc. The C-5 is a shade longer, but that's about it... for the time being  Smile

(granted, the C-5 has much cooler landing gear)
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17053
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:19 am

Here is a well known comparison. Unfortunately sans C-5.

"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8572
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:27 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 6):
The C-5 is pressurized?

Apparently, yes:
http://www.theaviationzone.com/factsheets/c5.asp

That makes sense...it would be awfully hard to transport a cargo hold of troops if you had to have them on supplemental oxygen the whole way.

Tom.
 
WingedMigrator
Posts: 1767
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:45 am

RE: Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:43 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 11):
Here is a well known comparison.

Authored by yours truly 

(edit): here's a better SVG version from Wikipedia.

I was asked to add the C-5 but the graphic got too cluttered, and size-wise it isn't even in the top three!

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 8):
It looks like until the introduction of the A380, the A330-300 was most efficient.

Just caught that... it isn't quite so. The charts are for 6000 nm stage lengths, which the A330-300 can't do at that payload. That's why the color code is different, shown for 5000 nm. Also, the crude leveling assumption of 1 pax/m2 does not generally hold true.

The 773ER is often (and correctly) spoken of as the most efficient long range airliner, bar only the A380. That's why I used it as a reference against which to compare everything else.

[Edited 2008-06-17 23:45:05]
 
tf39
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:43 am

RE: Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:53 am



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
Quoting 474218 (Reply 6):

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 4):
Heh. Can it be pressurized?

The C-5 is pressurized?

I don't think so, which is why I stated my question.

LOL! Fond memories of blankets, plastic, and chains to seal up the leaks in flight.

For those who don't know, the C-5 commonly experienced pressurization leaks during flight given the massive amount of seals required for it's forward and aft cargo doors. Visor ramp leaks and rear door side leaks seemed to be the most common (IMO). The rear door had two side seals that never seemed to seat right, hence the use of the various materials listed above. But in my dated experience, we never had a case where the crew had to put on their O2 masks. I had one time though where we were limited in altitude because we couldn't fully pressurize.

And yes, the landing gear is pretty cool!
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17053
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Most Fuel Efficient Large Passenger Transport?

Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:24 am



Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 13):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 11):
Here is a well known comparison.

Authored by yours truly

Kudos to you then! Very well done!
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests