ksbd
Topic Author
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:37 pm

### CRJ Takeoff Question

Does anybody know the takeoff angle of attack for a CRJ-700? Figure for MTOW. Thanks!

Starlionblue
Posts: 17952
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

Wouldn't that depend on altitude and temperature anyway?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

ksbd
Topic Author
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:37 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

Sure. But I'm thinking the average....like between 10 and 15 degrees.

AAH732UAL
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:41 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

I don't think there is a set number.

Just start a 3 degree per sec smooth rotation at Vr till you are in the air. There is prolly some sorta of limit to prevent a tail strike...... but at 3 degrees per sec.... that plane will not need 5 secs to rotate.
DME/DME RNP0.3 NA -Escalators don't break---- they just become stairs!

PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting KSBD (Thread starter):Does anybody know the takeoff angle of attack for a CRJ-700? Figure for MTOW. Thanks!

 Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 3):Just start a 3 degree per sec smooth rotation at Vr till you are in the air. There is prolly some sorta of limit to prevent a tail strike...... but at 3 degrees per sec.... that plane will not need 5 secs to rotate.

The OP needs to clarify if he really wants the angle of attack or the body angle. There is no real way to measure the angle of attack.

I am almost positive there is no limiter to prevent a tail strike. In reality you don't want to keep the pitch up until you come off the ground. That's how you get tailstrikes.
Fly fast, live slow

ANITIX87
Posts: 2983
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:52 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 3):Just start a 3 degree per sec smooth rotation at Vr till you are in the air.

Is this what real pilots try to do? Is there any way to ensure you're lifting off at 3 degrees per second? It seems like it would be quite easy to yank on the stick a little too hard.

TIS
www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4

PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 5):Is this what real pilots try to do?

Very easy to do....one potato, two potato, three potato. On the 744, at MTOW you would even want to do it at about 2 degrees/second.
Fly fast, live slow

2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 4):The OP needs to clarify if he really wants the angle of attack or the body angle.

Agreed. The two terms are often....and mistakenly....used interchangeably.

2H4
Intentionally Left Blank

tdscanuck
Posts: 8572
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 4):The OP needs to clarify if he really wants the angle of attack or the body angle. There is no real way to measure the angle of attack.

Doesn't a CRJ have an AoA meter? All the Boeing's I've ever worked on do.

Tom.

PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 8):Doesn't a CRJ have an AoA meter? All the Boeing's I've ever worked on do. Tom

I am sure it does, just like any Boeing or Airbus. However, in the cockpit, there is no AOA readout at all.
Fly fast, live slow

flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 9):Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 8): Doesn't a CRJ have an AoA meter? All the Boeing's I've ever worked on do. Tom I am sure it does, just like any Boeing or Airbus. However, in the cockpit, there is no AOA readout at all.

Strangely enough, the occasional CRJ does have AoA readout information. We have a couple birds in our fleet that were meant for another carrier (not sure who) that have digital readouts of the left and right AoA sensors as well as what current AoA will activate the stall protection system. Its kind of neat.

I can't speak for the CRJ-700, but in the -200 (which admittedly will be very different due to our lack of leading edge devices).... AoA is in the 2-4 degree range after takeoff, momentarily reaching 6-7 degrees during flap retraction. Of course, this depends on weight, takeoff flap setting, etc.

AAH732UAL
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:41 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

There is also a tail strike guard on the -700 and -900 IIRC.
DME/DME RNP0.3 NA -Escalators don't break---- they just become stairs!

Starlionblue
Posts: 17952
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

Whether it has an AoA meter in the cockpit or not is not really relevant since pilots don't use it for this kind of thing. They have a target speed and they use that. The deck angle and AoA are dependent on the target speed, the take off weight, air density...
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

tdscanuck
Posts: 8572
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 12):Whether it has an AoA meter in the cockpit or not is not really relevant since pilots don't use it for this kind of thing.

It may be irrelevant to the flight crew but it's really relevant to this:

 Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 4):There is no real way to measure the angle of attack.

Even if it's not displayed on the flight deck, it's probably on the DFDR.

Tom.

PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 13): Even if it's not displayed on the flight deck, it's probably on the DFDR.

So, how is the crew supposed to obtain this information in "real time"????

Don't get me wrong, I flew AOA in the military and it's great. I wish it were available in the aircraft I fly, but it's not. So, you do without....

[Edited 2008-06-15 21:00:29]
Fly fast, live slow

Starlionblue
Posts: 17952
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

Fair enough Tdscanuck.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo

tdscanuck
Posts: 8572
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 14): So, how is the crew supposed to obtain this information in "real time"????

They're not. I brought up the topic of the AoA meter solely as a counter to the argument that there was no way to measure AoA. There certainly is a way to measure it, and it's done on lots of aircraft all the time. It's useless to the flight crew (in the raw form) so most aircraft don't display it to them.

There are, literally, thousands of parameters that are measured and recorded by the aircraft that aren't visible to the flight crew in normal operation. AoA is hardly unique in that aspect.

Tom.

PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 16):They're not. I brought up the topic of the AoA meter solely as a counter to the argument that there was no way to measure AoA. There certainly is a way to measure it, and it's done on lots of aircraft all the time. It's useless to the flight crew (in the raw form) so most aircraft don't display it to them

My point is it's not useless. After flying AOA in the military and then coming to the commercial side I was amazed there was no AOA indication available to the crew. On the 744, you do have it when you configure and get the "moustache" but that's only the max energy line, it's not an AOA display. In reality, it gives you the AOA crit, but nothing more.

I do realise what the inputs into the DFDR are and know that AOA is measured......
Fly fast, live slow

SLUAviator
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:30 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

In the -700, we rotate at 3 degrees/sec right into the flight director. The flight director is calculated for us by the plane based on temp, wind, weight, and whole bunch of other factors.

There is a tail skid on the 700s and 900s. Bombardier figured out that it would not be used if you rotate properly. You have to WAY over rotate to bump your butt on the runway with those guys! In fact, I remember something in ground school about the newest 700/900s are going to have the tail skid eliminated entirely, but don't quote me on that.
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......

2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 17):My point is it's not useless. After flying AOA in the military and then coming to the commercial side I was amazed there was no AOA indication available to the crew.

My Aero instructor was of the opinion that each and every airplane should come equipped with an AOA indicator and a stall margin indicator.

 Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 18):You have to WAY over rotate to bump your butt on the runway with those guys!

Is a tailstrike more likely during takeoff or during landing? Landing in gusty crosswinds and recovering from a bounce, for example.

2H4
Intentionally Left Blank

Skyslave
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:52 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

I work for a regional airline flying the -200 model, and we recently got an FOM revision saying that we have to click the flight director off right before takeoff. Why? I have no friggin clue. Now we just pitch up to about 10 degrees. And to add to the rest of the conversation... just pull up genltly when you want to take off. There is no AoA indication, but you dont need one... there is a red bar at the bottom of the speed tape, which I like to refer to as "the no zone". Keep it out of that area, and you're flyin' high, ace.

Skyslave
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:52 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

Either take off or landing lends its self to a tail strike. If you're mr. cool guy hot shot, and yank on the yoke during rotation, you can get a tail strike. Now for landing, I noticed if the pilot is low on airspeed over the threshold, the aircraft will sink when you dont want it to, leading to the pilot pitching up even more in order to not slam it on the runway. This will lead to a very nose high attitude, and very near the stall region. I've never seen it happen, but I can see the potential for it.

flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting Skyslave (Reply 20):I work for a regional airline flying the -200 model, and we recently got an FOM revision saying that we have to click the flight director off right before takeoff. Why? I have no friggin clue.

There have been crashes recently of the CRJ-200/Challenger relating to excessive rotation rates and/or target pitch attitudes by the pilots causing a stall. This is further worsened when any type of contamination is present on the wing and was not properly removed. I'm guessing your FOM revision also included changes to de-icing procedures and wing anti-ice usage.

Really the best idea would've been to teach every pilot how to properly rotate a CRJ, but instead many airlines have chosen to instead limit pitch angle on departure to 10 degrees instead of the flight director commanded 15 degrees.

AAH732UAL
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:41 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 22): Really the best idea would've been to teach every pilot how to properly rotate a CRJ, but instead many airlines have chosen to instead limit pitch angle on departure to 10 degrees instead of the flight director commanded 15 degrees.

O yeah? That is strange..... I would think Bombardier would know the plane better then some airline that requires a CRJ transition course before even hiring the pilot to cut down on sim time
DME/DME RNP0.3 NA -Escalators don't break---- they just become stairs!

flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 23):O yeah? That is strange..... I would think Bombardier would know the plane better then some airline that requires a CRJ transition course before even hiring the pilot to cut down on sim time Yeah sure

Yeah, you know, I can't say I'm the expert on the whole AD and its background, but thats how it was explained to me.

I'm not even going to touch the whole CRJ transition course thing....

SLUAviator
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:30 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting Skyslave (Reply 20):I work for a regional airline flying the -200 model, and we recently got an FOM revision saying that we have to click the flight director off right before takeoff. Why? I have no friggin clue. Now we just pitch up to about 10 degrees.

You know what, we just got something similar for our 200s as well! Before we'd click the flight director which went way up to the TO/TO position and then only pitch up to 10 degrees on takeoff. As we sped up in speed mode the flight director would move down to 10 degrees pitch and then we would follow it back up at the selected airspeed. Now we click it on when we are #2 in line and roll the pitch wheel until the FD is on 10 degrees and leave it there. Once we are in the air and in speed mode we follow it at the appropriate airspeed.

We were limited to 10 degrees and I want to say it is because of an RJ crash in china because of a really rapid rotation with some contamination on the wing. This new AD (which is also about anti-ice on TO, not just pitch) came out because someone on a ferry flight had un-commanded roll just after takeoff when the plane was properly deiced and within the HOT.

What do I know, I just fly em the way the company tells me to!
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......

Alias1024
Posts: 2330
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 25): Now we click it on when we are #2 in line and roll the pitch wheel until the FD is on 10 degrees and leave it there.

It's certainly an annoying procedure. Nobody has managed to give me a satisfactory answer for why the FD can't be set at the gate before pushback.

 Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 22):I'm guessing your FOM revision also included changes to de-icing procedures and wing anti-ice usage.

Don't get me started on those. They're even dumber than the flight director nonsense.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.

SLUAviator
Posts: 292
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:30 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 26):It's certainly an annoying procedure. Nobody has managed to give me a satisfactory answer for why the FD can't be set at the gate before pushback.

When you click the flight director before takeoff, it is the final position check for the FMS from the GPS. They sync up and whatever your GPS has is what you go with. If you have a long taxi from the gate to the runway it might screw your position up...... not that those things are not accurate enough anyway!
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......

Alias1024
Posts: 2330
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 27):When you click the flight director before takeoff, it is the final position check for the FMS from the GPS. They sync up and whatever your GPS has is what you go with. If you have a long taxi from the gate to the runway it might screw your position up...... not that those things are not accurate enough anyway!

That's why the engineers who built the box put a RWY UPDATE function on the legs page. Once lined up on the runway, the captain can very easily push this and the FMS is no longer lost. It would take about half a second, and would prevent us from taxiing around with the FO's head inside to adjust the flight director.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.

AAH732UAL
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:41 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 28):That's why the engineers who built the box put a RWY UPDATE function on the legs page. Once lined up on the runway, the captain can very easily push this and the FMS is no longer lost. It would take about half a second, and would prevent us from taxiing around with the FO's head inside to adjust the flight director.

Is that not already mandated for RNAV SIDs anyway. I know its for DME/DME and DME/DME/IRU FMS anyway. I really didn't have a firm answer if GPS MMRs FMS needed to do that.
DME/DME RNP0.3 NA -Escalators don't break---- they just become stairs!

PhilSquares
Posts: 3371
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:06 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 27):When you click the flight director before takeoff, it is the final position check for the FMS from the GPS. They sync up and whatever your GPS has is what you go with. If you have a long taxi from the gate to the runway it might screw your position up...... not that those things are not accurate enough anyway

 Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 28):That's why the engineers who built the box put a RWY UPDATE function on the legs page. Once lined up on the runway, the captain can very easily push this and the FMS is no longer lost. It would take about half a second, and would prevent us from taxiing around with the FO's head inside to adjust the flight director

 Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 29):Is that not already mandated for RNAV SIDs anyway. I know its for DME/DME and DME/DME/IRU FMS anyway. I really didn't have a firm answer if GPS MMRs FMS needed to do that.

I suggest you all need to go back and re-read your FCOMS or FOM. You are all wrong about the way the FMS updates the position on takeoff. With GPS or No GPS, when the FLEX or TO is selected, the FMS takes a snapshot of the position and assumes it's the end of the runway selected for departure. That's why the takeoff shift is there (NON-GPS only).

There is no "final position check" since once the IRS is aligned, it's position into the FMS will be updated with the GPS or Non-GPS methods. If the initial position is wrong you will get a warning as soon as the last coordinate is entered. In reality, there is always a constant position check with the IRS input and the FMS computed position.
Fly fast, live slow

Alias1024
Posts: 2330
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 30):With GPS or No GPS, when the FLEX or TO is selected, the FMS takes a snapshot of the position and assumes it's the end of the runway selected for departure. That's why the takeoff shift is there (NON-GPS only).

This is why pushing the RWY UPDATE will work on the CRJ, assuming you have programmed the departure runway into the FMS. RWY UPDATE takes a new snapshot.
You are of course correct that it does not perform a "final position check" when the TO mode is selected.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.

411A
Posts: 1788
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 10:34 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

"Tis pretty basic stuff, Phil.
I am astonished about so many misconceptions from our younger airline pilot group.
Perhaps they are too lazy to actually RTFB.

Good thing there are experienced Captains assigned, to keep the blue side up.

AAH732UAL
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:41 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

I am not a CRJ pilot guys... I was just asking a question from what I was told
DME/DME RNP0.3 NA -Escalators don't break---- they just become stairs!

CHQIAH
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:44 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 10):Strangely enough, the occasional CRJ does have AoA readout information. We have a couple birds in our fleet that were meant for another carrier (not sure who) that have digital readouts of the left and right AoA sensors as well as what current AoA will activate the stall protection system. Its kind of neat.

Our CRJ fleet has AOA
If you fly fast enough, the sun never sets

EMBQA
Posts: 7800
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

"What's an AOA vane..? signed the Embraer Ejet's...
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"

CHQIAH
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:44 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting EMBQA (Reply 35):"What's an AOA vane..? signed the Embraer Ejet's...

Angle of attack. The AOA is the angle between the chordline of the wing and the relative wind and it pretty much looks like a very small wing that moves almost, but not in a full circle. We usually replace one or two a month from different a/c.
If you fly fast enough, the sun never sets

EMBQA
Posts: 7800
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

Aaaah yes.. I know that. The Embraer Ejets don't have them. They don't even have Pitot Probes. They use something called a Smart Probe. No pitot pressure lines...only a single cannon plug.

[Edited 2008-06-30 13:44:07]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"

AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

I'm reading through systems right now, particularly flight controls. Why does the CRJ have the stab trim disconnect on the yoke close to the flight director sync? It would seem like if you're not paying attention or are new you could probably hit the wrong button.

Alias1024
Posts: 2330
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 38):I'm reading through systems right now, particularly flight controls. Why does the CRJ have the stab trim disconnect on the yoke close to the flight director sync? It would seem like if you're not paying attention or are new you could probably hit the wrong button.

Not really an issue. The stab trim disconnect is far enough out of the way that you have to be trying to hit it.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.

CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2102
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 17): After flying AOA in the military and then coming to the commercial side I was amazed there was no AOA indication available to the crew. On the 744, you do have it when you configure and get the "moustache" but that's only the max energy line, it's not an AOA display.

Hey PhilSquares, We have the same "moustache" on the -11, PLI Pitch Limit Indicator but as they begin the installation of the HUD/EVS in the MD-11/-10s it will have AoA! Can't wait!

9VSIO
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:00 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting Skyslave (Reply 21):Now for landing, I noticed if the pilot is low on airspeed over the threshold, the aircraft will sink when you dont want it to, leading to the pilot pitching up even more in order to not slam it on the runway. This will lead to a very nose high attitude, and very near the stall region. I've never seen it happen, but I can see the potential for it.

I've seen it on a Cessna....pilot was v v slow and in a nose high attitude, applied power to go around, but didn't catch the pitch up caused by adding power...no more rear tie-down on that particular Cessna...

So far, I've only ever done one landing where I thought I was in danger of a tail-strike but apparently I needed a lot more angle for one to actually happen. touch wood for the future...
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...

LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

So we've talked about rotation rates and angles on T/O, now I have a question for the jet pilots:

When you are the Pilot Flying on take off, and it's time to commence the rotation, do you concentrate your attention on the PFD to get the exact pitch/pitch rate, or do you split your attention between the instrument and looking outside?

LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it

flyf15
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting LY744 (Reply 42):When you are the Pilot Flying on take off, and it's time to commence the rotation, do you concentrate your attention on the PFD to get the exact pitch/pitch rate, or do you split your attention between the instrument and looking outside?

At the commencement of the rotation, I am almost entirely looking outside... driving the plane down the runway. As the nose lifts off the ground, I divert more and more attention to the PFD. Once the mains are off the ground and the aircraft is stabilized in the air (mostly that the initial weather-vaning into the crosswind is complete), my attention is has transitioned almost completely to the PFD completing the rotation. Once I reach my target pitch angle and airspeed has stopped increasing, then I go to just flying the airplane like usual.

Although, of course, this all takes place over the course of a few seconds and I can't really say I've ever paid a lot of attention to it and how I do it... it is something you just do. But, thinking about it, that seems to be my best recollection of how I do it.

CRJ900
Posts: 2103
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

Slightly off topic, but how is the CRJ cockpit as a workplace (office)? Does it feel almost as spacious as MD80, A320 and B737 cockpits? With more and more CRJs flying four-hour nonstops, pilots are "forced" to like their office for hours on end.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me

stillageek
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:19 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

I've only flown the CRJ700 but I have jumpseated in MD80s, ERJ145s and 737s. The CRJ IMHO is more comfy than the MD80 and the ERJ145. The 80 is more airy, but equipment and readouts all over the place making for a busy cockpit. The ERJ is cramped and not ergonomic at all. The 737 is very roomy and comfy. I've spent 3 1/2 hours in my seat and never felt tired. I only wish my airline opted for the forward lav. Making the walk to the back is a pain and I only do it if I really have to go and see delays ahead.

EssentialPowr
Posts: 1646
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:30 pm

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

1. I see a lot of RJs with a flare like a 172... Note: that is not a good thing in the big leagues, as that can be a tail stike.

2. I see a lot of cross controlling as well. 300 feet AGL, and the RJ is all wrapped up and cross controlled. Not good for:

a. a stabilized approach, due to sudden increase in added drag.

b. tailstrikes and engine pod clearance

c. pax comfort.

Alias1024
Posts: 2330
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting EssentialPowr (Reply 46):1. I see a lot of RJs with a flare like a 172... Note: that is not a good thing in the big leagues, as that can be a tail stike.

I flew with a captain a few months ago that was trying so hard for soft landings that he got the stick shaker during the flare not once, but twice during a three day trip. The second one my hand was in place to block him from pitching any higher, because I though he was getting uncomfortably close to putting the tail on the runway. Both of these wound up being pounded on anyway as the energy bled off and the airplane fell the last few feet onto the runway.

Not good.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.

CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2102
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting LY744 (Reply 42):do you concentrate your attention on the PFD to get the exact pitch/pitch rate, or do you split your attention between the instrument and looking outside?

Like Flyf15 said we are looking outside and as we rotate you intitially rotate the PFD up into your field of vision. This is somewhere around liftoff.

Greasemonkey
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:18 am

### RE: CRJ Takeoff Question

 Quoting SLUAviator (Reply 18):I remember something in ground school about the newest 700/900s are going to have the tail skid eliminated entirely, but don't quote me on that.

You are correct. There is also an STC that is coming out to eliminate them from the current fleet. We always have pilots tell us that they know someone who knows someone else that struck the tail on takeoff, yet we have never ordered any parts for the tail skid nor do we keep them in stock. On another note, the -200 originally came with a tail skid when it first came out.
It's usually a good idea to know what all the buttons do...before you push them.

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Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos