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TK787
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Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:43 pm

I recently watched a TV show about the Orbis DC-10 and was amazed how big the windows were right behind the pilots.
Is there anything bigger then these windows? Thanks.

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wilco737
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:45 pm

The DC10 windows are pretty big yeah, same with the MD11 ones. I feel like sitting in a wintergarten there Big grin

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TK787
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:48 pm

Some of the shots were amazing on the show. One of the pax was visiting the cockpit, and it was as if she was in a helicopter, looking out the glass, taking pictures.
You are a lucky man Wilco.
 
wilco737
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:50 pm



Quoting TK787 (Reply 2):
Some of the shots were amazing on the show. One of the pax was visiting the cockpit, and it was as if she was in a helicopter, looking out the glass, taking pictures.
You are a lucky man Wilco.



Yeah, you have an amazing view from there, loads of sunshine find their way in there as well. The whole cockpit is pretty big on the MD11 as well. 4 people can sit there easily and 2 more still have space to stand in there... Big grin
I can't complain....  Wink

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tjwgrr
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:59 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 3):
Yeah, you have an amazing view from there, loads of sunshine find their way in there as well. The whole cockpit is pretty big on the MD11 as well. 4 people can sit there easily and 2 more still have space to stand in there...


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wilco737
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:08 pm



Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 4):

Thanks for that link, but we have another seat behind the captin. So 4 full seats  Wink

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richm
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:45 pm



Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 4):
Click here for bigger photo!

That does look big. Does anyone happen to know what the little CRT screen is on the top right? It has 2 red buttons next to it.

Cheers

- Rich
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:02 pm



Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
I recently watched a TV show about the Orbis DC-10 and was amazed how big the windows were right behind the pilots.
Is there anything bigger then these windows? Thanks.

I jumpseated MIA-LGW-MIA on a DC-10 and that window seemed about as huge as a picture window in a home...  Wink

I got some GREAT shots from the trip. I always sort of wondered of the 10's window compared size-wise with an L1011, a type I managed never to get a ride on. Anyone know?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
SXDFC
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:36 pm

I wonder what goes into the actual designs into these windows? The C-17 also has the same windows as the DC-10 MD-11.

When I sat in the 73NG cockpit I thought those windows were big, I can only imagine how big they really are if your in the C-17 or MD-11!
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
wilco737
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:38 pm



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 8):

When I sat in the 73NG cockpit I thought those windows were big, I can only imagine how big they really are if your in the C-17 or MD-11!

The 737 windows are tiny compared to the MD11 ones.... They are just huge  Wink

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vc10
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:04 pm

Whilst perhaps not as big as the DC-10 windows I seem to remember the VC-10 had large side windows, and a large flight deck with 5 seats, plus a toilet for the flight deck crew.

It was nice and comfy, but with those large windows it was always hard to avoid the glare of the sun at dawn  covereyes 

http://www.vc10.net/Photos/Images/F_Deck.jpg

http://www.vc10.net/Photos/inside_the_vc10.html

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SlamClick
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:25 pm



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 8):
I wonder what goes into the actual designs into these windows?

One thing to consider: Imagine the view across the cockpit, from left seat out the right side windows or vice-versa. Those oversize windows really enhance that. It may be overkill sitting right next to it, but get back six feet and you will appreciate it. And it is permissible to fly them for limited periods with but one pilot in his seat. (potty breaks etc.)
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
PGNCS
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:14 pm

I don't know which is the absolutely largest by area, but of the aircraft I have flown, the L-1011 definitely had the best visibility, and, I believe, the biggest windows. You just couldn't beat the view!
 
SlamClick
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:01 pm



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 12):
You just couldn't beat the view!

I know that when I sat on a taxiway in a lesser airplane and realized that I could see the pilots' forearms resting on the armrests they were really surrounded by glass. Flying the sunporch, as it were.

Never even rode on an L1011 and on the DC-10 I've only ridden in the cockpit jumpseat. Though the seat is not the greatest, the view was wonderful.
Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
474218
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:39 pm



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 12):
I don't know which is the absolutely largest by area, but of the aircraft I have flown, the L-1011 definitely had the best visibility, and, I believe, the biggest windows. You just couldn't beat the view!

The great view was courtesy of the curved windshields.

When you sit in the first observers seat the bottom of the seat is almost even with the bottom of the side window, so the view out the port side is like no other. Additionally you have an un-obstructed view over the captains left shoulder.


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Starlionblue
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:31 am



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 11):
One thing to consider: Imagine the view across the cockpit, from left seat out the right side windows or vice-versa. Those oversize windows really enhance that. It may be overkill sitting right next to it, but get back six feet and you will appreciate it. And it is permissible to fly them for limited periods with but one pilot in his seat. (potty breaks etc.)

An interesting phenomenon, distance from window. It's also one of the main reasons that the Apollo Lunar Module was built to have the astronauts standing up. That way they could have their faces much closer to the window, allowing smaller and much lighter windows while retaining an acceptable field of view.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:44 am

How reliable are these windows on this type in terms of cracking/overheating.
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keesje
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:28 am

I guess to have a better view while hooking up to a tanker..

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columba
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:11 pm



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 8):
I wonder what goes into the actual designs into these windows? The C-17 also has the same windows as the DC-10 MD-11.

Really, did not know that. You learn something new every day !!!!
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jetstar
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:47 pm



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 8):
I wonder what goes into the actual designs into these windows? The C-17 also has the same windows as the DC-10 MD-11.

The reason for this is the C-17 uses the basic DC-10/MD-11 nose section, they modified it and added the lower side windows
 
Viscount724
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:30 am



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 12):
I don't know which is the absolutely largest by area, but of the aircraft I have flown, the L-1011 definitely had the best visibility, and, I believe, the biggest windows. You just couldn't beat the view!

It's too bad passenger windows on the L1011 had the opposite problem. I always found the L1011 the most awkward widebody to see out of with rather small windows and mounted slightly too high in relation to the seats. DC-10 and MD-11 have much larger passenger windows, and 747 windows also seeme slightly larger than the L1011.

In terms of total cockpit window area on a commercial aircraft (not just jets) it must be hard to beat the Boeing 377 Stratocruiser with it's 19 window panes.

 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:43 am



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20):
In terms of total cockpit window area on a commercial aircraft (not just jets) it must be hard to beat the Boeing 377 Stratocruiser with it's 19 window panes.

So how many sets of Newspapers do the crew carry on board  Smile

On a serios note....anyone aware of the frequency of replacement for those Windows & whats the window heating sequence on them on this type?

regds
MEL.
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jetstar
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:20 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 21):
So how many sets of Newspapers do the crew carry on board

On a serios note....anyone aware of the frequency of replacement for those Windows & whats the window heating sequence on them on this type?

If I remember correctly from my days of working on the KC/C-97, which the B-377 is derived from, the inboard engines had 2 generators each and each outboard engine had a generator and an alternator, the alternators were primarily used for windshield heat. I believe they were all heated at once with a high and low setting.

The windshields were not that hard to replace, in most windshield changes, getting access to the mounting screws is the most difficult part, especially if a lot of interior trim and panels have to be removed like on the JetStar. I was an engine mechanic, but I don’t remember seeing a lot of windshield being changed in my 3 years on the KC/C-97 but again the military does not fly the hours an airline puts on their airplanes

Maps, magazines and newspapers did make great sunshades, especially when flying transoceanic. I remember flying some domestic trips as an ACM (additional crew member) where the pilots asked us to sit next to the windows and look out for traffic during take off and landings. The cockpit was so big that there was an aisle on the sides between the pilots and the windshields so I would sit or rather knell there and acted as another set of eyes.

The view was awesome, it was like sitting in a greenhouse, on one flight we landed at McDill Air Force Base in Tampa FL, in those days McDill’s runway was 500 feet wide, going back to the days when McDilll hosted B-47’s and the runway was that wide to allow for 2 B-47’s to take off at once, it was like landing on a wide open desert area.
Today when I fly commercially into Tampa, when we land to the north and make a base turn over McDill, I can still see the outline of the original runway, which has been narrowed down to a standard width.
 
David L
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:01 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 21):
So how many sets of Newspapers do the crew carry on board

 rotfl  Good one.
 
Pihero
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:31 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 21):
So how many sets of Newspapers do the crew carry on board

Best sun protection was/is the non-slip liners FAs use for dinner trays.

Witness this pic :

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See the whole upper body of the person in the observer seat, from mid-thigh to well over the head.
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CosmicCruiser
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:25 pm



Quoting Pihero (Reply 24):
See the whole upper body of the person in the observer seat, from mid-thigh to well over the head.

Yeah, but look at his position relative to the capt. His seat has to be raised to max height. Wouldn't you agree?
 
Pihero
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:31 pm

IIRC, that seat was fixed and it's higher than the Captain's seat,. which seems to be right at the eye-ref level.
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474218
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:40 pm



Quoting Pihero (Reply 26):
IIRC, that seat was fixed and it's higher than the Captain's seat,. which seems to be right at the eye-ref level.

Correct both observer seats are fixed.

Here are a couple more examples of Captins using the eye-ref.:


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CosmicCruiser
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:43 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 27):
Correct both observer seats are fixed.

More than likely so that a check airman can see over the shoulder of the capt to see the flt inst.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:40 am



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 22):
he windshields were not that hard to replace, in most windshield changes, getting access to the mounting screws is the most difficult part, especially if a lot of interior trim and panels have to be removed like on the JetStar

Was the Installation on the frame from Inside or outside the Aircraft?

regds
MEL.
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3MilesToWRO
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:31 am

Somehow different category, but navigator's windows on Tu-134 (and similar) are also not bad  Smile
 
SQ325
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:55 am


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This is a "Wintergarten"

[Edited 2008-06-30 02:57:40]
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:24 am

If you're going to consider largest NUMBER of windows don't forget the Boeing B-29 but the post sid LARGEST window in a jet.
 
jetstar
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RE: Largest Cockpit Window On A Jet?

Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:42 pm

On the C-97 it looks like from this photo that the windshield was removed from the inside, because there is no trim around the window frames it looks like an easy job.


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Now the JetStar was another story, the windows also were removed from the inside, but there was a lot of trim to be removed, also for the pilot and co-pilot forward windows and the center window, the glare panel also had to be removed. Each windshield wiper had it own motor, located above the window behind the opening direct vision window and a flexible drive shaft to the transmission located in the upper inboard corners, the drive shaft cable had to be disconnected and transmission had to be removed.


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Needless to say it was a 2 day job, and when removing or replacing the windshield screws a 2 man job.

The JetStar was basically an easy airplane to work on, but some things like fuel boost pump changes and windshields would get you cursing at the engineers who designed those things.

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