Zuluaviator994
Posts: 319
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:50 pm

ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:30 pm

I have a question for pilots;
When you receive clearance for your flight, and the controller gives you all your information, how do you take your notes? My best guess would be that you have a form that has initial altitudes/headings/SIDS/the like, and you fill in the blanks. I know you have Departure charts that give you everything you need to know about your departure airport, but how do you take your notes?
Thanks in advance.
If Speed is life, Altitude is life insurance. No one has ever collided with the sky.
 
ThePinnacleKid
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:32 pm

how I used to teach my students learning IFR for the first time.... (same format I still take them down in at the 121's... doesn't change between GA vs airlines)

the acronym CRAFT:

C - Cleared To

R - Route

A - Altitude

F - Frequency

T - Transponder Code

So a basic sample would be like:

"Jetlink 2100, you're cleared to the Houston Airport, On departure fly Runway Heading, expect Radar vectors to XYZ then As Filed, Climb and maintain 5000, expect Flight Level 310, 10 minutes after departure, departure frequency is 123.5, squawk 3340"

My notes from this would look like:

IAH RH RV - XYZ AF, 5 x 310 (10), 123.5 3340

deciphers to:

C - (cleared to) IAH
R - (route) RH RV - XYZ
A - (altitude) 5 x 310 (10)
F - (frequency) 123.5
T - (transponder) 3340




All that said.... We rarely have to get clearance from ATC at the airlines.. (my carrier) is ACARS equipped so we receive our Clearance (known as a PDC) via the FMC in an ACARS message... if we do have to get our clearance via Clearance Delivery we usually just write it down on a notepad or more often than not on the Flight Paperwork (above the flight plan) so when we want to reference it it is readily available...

Hope that helps

[Edited 2008-06-28 15:35:51]
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
pilotpip
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:52 pm

By "forms" you mean napkins. I usually try to steal a few each morning from the galley. They're the perfect size for note taking.
DMI
 
Alias1024
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:57 am

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 2):
By "forms" you mean napkins. I usually try to steal a few each morning from the galley. They're the perfect size for note taking.

I guess my airline is a big spender. We still have paper forms where we can write down ATIS, Clearance, and single engine departure procedures. Also has a handy Celsius-Fahrenheit conversion table so we don't sound so dumb on the PA while we try to perform math in public.

Anyway, just like ThePinnacleKid wrote, pretty much everyone follows the CRAFT format. I just realized this is my 1,000th post. I need to spend less time in my crashpad.

[Edited 2008-06-28 17:58:15]

[Edited 2008-06-28 17:59:39]
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
113312
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:36 am

Most people have their own short hand as discussed above. In the airline world, most clearances come electronically, via ACARS. However, once issued, a revised clearance via ACARS is not allowed. Any change must be issued verbally. This isn't a rare occurance when ATC must issue a reroute due to weather or traffic conditions. The revision might be minor but it can be an entirely new and complex route.

While a formal form might be nice, it isn't necessary or convenient. Most simply write the details on their flight log or any other paper at hand. It is a good idea, with multipilot crews, that each person write it down. While a full readback, to ATC, is the normal procedure, they are not required to catch mistakes! It is the responsibility of the Pilot-in-Command to adhere to the issued clearance. Therefore it is vital to ensure a clear understanding of the instructions issued.
 
ThirtyEcho
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:20 am

I was taught a quick code by an oldtime AA captain:

"M" with the first part of the letter being an up arrow, followed by a level arrow means "climb and maintain," followed by the altitude.

"Q" means squawk.

Left or right hooked arrows, followed by a heading, indicate turns after takeoff.

"EFC10" means "expect further clearance 10 minutes after departure."

"RV" means "via radar vectors."

"X" is a crossing restriction, followed by the fix.

"KT" is speed restriction, arrows indicating above or below and a level line indicates an exact speed.

You get my drift; it is all just common sense.
 
pilotpip
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:26 pm



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 3):
I guess my airline is a big spender. We still have paper forms where we can write down ATIS, Clearance, and single engine departure procedures. Also has a handy Celsius-Fahrenheit conversion table so we don't sound so dumb on the PA while we try to perform math in public.

I never really used, or taught CRAFT. Just sort of started a simple shorthand for everything. Really, it does follow craft as that's how the clearance is read. We had a pre-made form at TSA for ATIS, speeds and clearance but to be honest I couldn't fit everything on there. The ATIS box was huge and the clearance box was tiny. Having a blank sheet works better for me. By the time you throw the destination ATIS gate info and any specials on there it's pretty full. Getting a reroute usually involves me grabbing another sheet or a page out of the middle of the release. It just so happens that the napkins are a perfect size. I can leave the ATIS and clearance on the center pedistal above the start/stop switches during preflight so the captain can see it and then throw it on my chart holder to write down taxi instructions and have them in the same line of sight as my airport diagram.

Sometimes I go high class. I usually try to take the notepads out of my hotel room.  Smile

I don't think many in the regional world are using PDC as of yet and many of the airports we go to (even large ones) don't have it available. We're supposed to start using it in the near future. I've tried using it on our ACARS but to no avail.
DMI
 
Mir
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:44 pm

My clearances generally look something like this, written on a scrap of paper:

clr HFD
HPN1 vec CMK af
3000/8000 (10)
124.6
3522

"cleared to HFD via Westchester 1 departure, radar vectors CMK, then as filed. Maintain 3,000, expect 8,000 10 minutes after departure. Departure frequency is 124.60, squawk 3522."

I know the CRAFT acronym, but I've never used it. I just write it down as it's read off.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
ThePinnacleKid
Posts: 497
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:28 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 7):
I know the CRAFT acronym, but I've never used it. I just write it down as it's read off.

egh... we all use CRAFT (it is how ATC gives it to us after all)... the acronym is itself simply a teaching aide to teach new IFR students a quick way to learn the incoming format of a clearance they're about to have to write down... I had my students at first write the acronym vertically then the clearance beside the corresponding spot until they were able to get them on their own and in the usual way most write it out... just shorthand and run together...

when I was learning it may have looked like:
C - IAH
R - RH RV FUZ AF
A - 5000 x FL310 (10)
F - 123.45
T - 1792

now when I (very rarely) have to write one:
IAH RH RV FUZ AF 5 x 310 (10) 123.45 1792


It's the same thing... they're both containing the Clearance and in the CRAFT sequence.. just one is in a learning format and one is real world daily on job professional life... So I contend we all use the CRAFT method whether knowingly or unknowingly...  Wink

Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 6):
I don't think many in the regional world are using PDC as of yet and many of the airports we go to (even large ones) don't have it available. We're supposed to start using it in the near future. I've tried using it on our ACARS but to no avail.

All depends on your carrier and if they're set up to get PDC's... Mine, a lot of the airports we go to ( a good 60-70%) have D-ATIS & PDC availability.... the last trip I had for instance only had to call for a clearance at 1 airport... the rest it was all through PDC....

As far as the napkin thing... we have a form we use for DEP / ARR notes and ATIS's.. but no real place for the clearance (since most are through PDC and as such stored in our ACARS msg history in the box)... if we have to write one down, I either write it on my notepad (hotel provided  Smile ) or I write it above the beginning of the flight plan on our paperwork...
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:37 am

I normally scribble on a plain white paper pad which we have on the flightdeck. We fly all over the world so departure clearances vary in format from place to place. Much of it you can expect because you already know which SID you are going to get. Another clue, especially in places where they give you a 30 second clearance read at the speed of sound, you can listen out for other flights going the same direction as you and scribble down part of their clearance. When you get yours, you cross out bits which don't apply and tick the bits which do and add anything you get different.

In some places we also get an ACARS printed clearance. In Hong Kong we request clearance via ACARS. We then get a reply which we accept via ACARS. Our first contact with ATC is to call 'ready'.
 
Mir
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:07 am



Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 8):
So I contend we all use the CRAFT method whether knowingly or unknowingly...

Alright, I'll give you that. But I've never written the word "CRAFT" down on a piece of paper.  Smile

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
atct
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:11 pm



Quoting 113312 (Reply 4):
It is the responsibility of the Pilot-in-Command to adhere to the issued clearance.

Actually it is the resonsibility of the CD controller to catch your read-back mistakes. If you deviate, and you read it back the way you flew, then the CD controller will be the one responsible for the possible lack of seperation or the procedural deviation.

This is why I have all pilots read back the full clearance. (not just initial altitude and squawk)

ATCT
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jetstar
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:18 pm

I made up my own shorthand codes,

For a clearance like cleared to HPN xxxx1 departure, maintain 5 thousand feet, expect FL350 10 minutes after departure, runway heading for radar vectors, squawk
2345, departure frequency 132.35

I made up my own shorthand for copying clearances.

I wrote HPN xxx1 dep, m5, efl35-10mad, rhrv, 2345, 132.35

When reading back, I would fill in the obvious like the aircraft model and N number and to keep it short I never started the read back with ATC clears ------, I started with JetStar Nxxxx is cleared to ---- and after read back always ended it with have a good day.

As long as you can read what you wrote, anything goes.
 
WESTERN737800
Posts: 385
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:04 pm



Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 6):
I never really used, or taught CRAFT. Just sort of started a simple shorthand for everything. Really, it does follow craft as that's how the clearance is read

I do the same thing just shorthand. I use the little (5 by 7" I think) little yellow notepads they work pretty good for me.
Bring back Western Airlines!
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:39 pm

BA Pilots, tell me you have proper forms for this, it would be so "English".  Smile
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ednovak
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:06 pm



Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 8):
when I was learning it may have looked like:
C - IAH
R - RH RV FUZ AF
A - 5000 x FL310 (10)
F - 123.45
T - 1792

now when I (very rarely) have to write one:
IAH RH RV FUZ AF 5 x 310 (10) 123.45 1792

How can I get one of those transponders?? I always have to refuse that code!
 
bond007
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:17 pm



Quoting Ednovak (Reply 15):
ow can I get one of those transponders?? I always have to refuse that code!

It's Metric  Wink

Just like the runway numbers they have in Europe, like 45L and 78R !

Jimbo
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Mir
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:44 pm



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 12):
I never started the read back with ATC clears

You shouldn't hear "ATC clears..." unless you're not getting your clearance from an ATC facility, like if you get it from FSS or by relay from another aircraft.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
SlamClick
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:55 pm



Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 2):
you mean napkins. I usually try to steal a few each morning from the galley. They're the perfect size for note taking.



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 3):
I guess my airline is a big spender. We still have paper forms where we can write down ATIS,

Before my airline became a big spender my official form usually said "Hilton" or "Ramada" or "La Quinta" or "Red Lion" on them.

Common practice now to have the printout clipped on one side of the center panel and the final W&B on the other, and to brief the departure off the clearance, verifying the settings on the FMS and on the glareshield.
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ThePinnacleKid
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:42 am



Quoting Ednovak (Reply 15):
How can I get one of those transponders?? I always have to refuse that code!

lol.. it's only for example.. didn't even notice what you were talkin' about till I looked at it... indeed you're right... my lil' quick hit of the keypad didn't take into account we only have up to 7... lol...
"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
 
wilco737
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:57 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 17):
You shouldn't hear "ATC clears..." unless you're not getting your clearance from an ATC facility, like if you get it from FSS or by relay from another aircraft.

Or when you are over the north Atlantic and talking to Gander Radio. We request FL360, he says: standby. Then he calls Gander (the real ATC guy) and then he SELCALs us back and then I hear this:
"Gander Center clears GEC8280 to climb and maintain FL360, report reaching."
So the clearance was given by Gander Center and not by Gander Radio. 2 different things  Wink

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
atct
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:24 pm

Well not sure exactly what the 7110.65 says on this (I dont have on handy and im too lazy to look it up) but I usually say

"JetLink 2008, XXX Clearance, Cleared to the XXX Airport via the..."

ATCT
Trikes are for kids!
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: ATC/Clearance Delivery Notes

Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:54 pm



Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 19):
didn't take into account we only have up to 7

You gotta be kiddin me! Now I understand when I issue a transponder code with a 8 or 9 in it I get the "say again" response....and understand why I never find the data block that tags on the display either.  crazy 

Quoting ATCT (Reply 21):
JetLink

That would be "JetLincoln" sir!!!  Smile
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