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khelmDTW
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ExpressJet FMC

Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:06 pm

I was looking at some ERJ cockpit photos, and noticed some irregularities with the FMC. In this photo, there are two FMC's and the RMU has been moved up since the old steam gauges have been replaced with the ISFD.

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Photo © Chris Coates



However, in this photo the RMU is where the FMC would be on later jets. There is computer behind the autopilot panel. Is it and FMC or an ACARS computer?

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If it is an ACARS computer, how would you add the route? VOR to VOR/NDB like the old days?

Any help is greatly appreciated!
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mhodgson
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:21 pm

On some models of ERJ, the FMC is at the back of the pedestal - the top of the screen on the lower photo will be the FMC.

FlyBE/BA Connects ERJ's have the same setup.
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mls515
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:21 pm

The first photo shows a dual FMS installation. The second photo shows a single FMS installation. It's mounted on the pedestal. In the photo, you can only see the top part of the screen.
 
avioniker
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:06 pm

Actually what you are calling the FMC is the CDU or MCDU. The FMC is a separate computer in the avionics package "downstairs". It's possible to have more than one CDU installed with a single FMC and in the big commercial world it's common. Where money is a concern, single FMS is common with dual CDU installation. Convenience for the pilots, money for the owners.
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EMBQA
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:48 pm

Quoting KhelmDTW (Thread starter):

Also.... those are not both ExpressJet aircraft. One is ExpressJet....one is from Chautauqua. One is also an E135, the other an E145. Just like cars, airlines are offered option on their aircraft. An option that ExpressJet takes may not be taken by Chautauqua.

[Edited 2008-07-10 12:51:19]
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khelmDTW
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:43 pm



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 4):
Also.... those are not both ExpressJet aircraft. One is ExpressJet....one is from Chautauqua. One is also an E135, the other an E145. Just like cars, airlines are offered option on their aircraft. An option that ExpressJet takes may not be taken by Chautauqua.

Yeah, I noticed the same thing, but in regards to Chautauqua vs. Expressjet, I've seen the same thing with some BTA birds.

As for the EMB-145 vs. EMB-135, eh, they both seem to have VERY similar flight decks, so I though I'd through it up there.  Smile

Quoting Avioniker (Reply 3):
Avioniker

Boy, you'd think with as much reading up on flying as I do, I would've noticed that, whoops!
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pilotpip
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:58 pm

All depends on the setup. Some have two FMS boxes, some have one. TSA had a little bit of everything. Some single units, some dual. Then some have Universals. Some had ISIS, some had the steam guages.

You used the FMS for the ACARS too. No separate box. It's the same way on the 170.
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KAUSpilot
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:07 pm



Quoting KhelmDTW (Reply 5):
Yeah, I noticed the same thing, but in regards to Chautauqua vs. Expressjet, I've seen the same thing with some BTA birds.

As for the EMB-145 vs. EMB-135, eh, they both seem to have VERY similar flight decks, so I though I'd through it up there.

Yes, the oldest third (approximately) of the expressjet fleet has a single CDU FMS setup whereas the newer 2/3rds have the dual CDU FMS with the Integrated Standby Instrutment System seen in your first picture.

As far as the chittycaca (sp?  Wink) planes, I haven't seen any with dual CDU's, they were probably too cheap for that and went with the inferior single CDU option on all their ERJ's. Some of them do have the ISIS and elevated RMU's....there is simply a blank spot where the additional CDU would have gone (kind of sad).


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AAH732UAL
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:20 am

Take a look at some 737 NG pics. One side is the Green old FMC while the left is the NEW colorful one.

From the photos above.... it looks like the E-145 is older then the E-135. So prolly just a change in layout done by Emberar. (Sorry if this was already pointed out)

See the RMUs on the 135 is where the old standby stuff was on the 145 and all the standby stuff is now in one compact LCD display!

Quoting KhelmDTW (Thread starter):

If it is an ACARS computer, how would you add the route? VOR to VOR/NDB like the old days?

ACARS can be merged into the FMC. Just would be located in like the Menu page.

Try Q-routes and RNAV approaches instead of LF airways and NDB approachs

[Edited 2008-07-10 17:40:55]
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DashTrash
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:27 am

Coex uses the Honeywell FMZ box, while Chautauqua uses the UNS. I've used them both. An airline that opts for the Universal is just screaming "cheap!".
 
Alias1024
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:41 am



Quoting DashTrash (Reply 9):
Coex uses the Honeywell FMZ box, while Chautauqua uses the UNS. I've used them both. An airline that opts for the Universal is just screaming "cheap!".

What do you prefer about the Honeywell?
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IAHFLYR
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:12 am

Off topic but anyone else notice the difference in the 2 flight decks.....ExpressJet is clean and crisp looking, Chautauqua looks totally opposite!  Yeah sure
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jetfixer
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:53 am



Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 11):
Off topic but anyone else notice the difference in the 2 flight decks.....ExpressJet is clean and crisp looking, Chautauqua looks totally opposite!

Yes, that was the first thing I noticed. Cheap on avionics, and cheap on cleaning crews too.
 
AAH732UAL
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:31 am



Quoting Jetfixer (Reply 12):
Yes, that was the first thing I noticed. Cheap on avionics, and cheap on cleaning crews too.

My wonderful saying about UA management or any for that matter,

"Pay for crap and expect your hand to smell like Sh%t"

:D
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loggat
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:21 am

EMB 135-145 airplanes up to a certain point in time from start of production came with the Mark I cockpit which has the standby steam gauges you see in the second picture. After a certain time, the Mark II cockpit was implemented with the ISIS and dual WX radar control heads. The Mark II brought the RMUs onto the dash and the FMS units onto the forward pedestal. A few other things moved around, but all the same things were still there somewhere. That should answer the original thread starter's questions with real facts.

And as for the cheapshot express...

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 7):
As far as the chittycaca (sp? ) planes, I haven't seen any with dual CDU's, they were probably too cheap for that and went with the inferior single CDU option on all their ERJ's. Some of them do have the ISIS and elevated RMU's....there is simply a blank spot where the additional CDU would have gone (kind of sad).

I guess it's kind of sad (using your phrase) that your company thinks you need 2 units when 1 does the job fine. Checked the MEL lately? (2 installed 0 required)

I used to work for AX and they had a whole bunch of second hand planes with various configurations (2 honeywell, 1 honeywell, 1 universal, 2 universal). They were all as shit as each other.

How is the Houston Koolaid factory doing these days anyway?

I await your next cheapshot and Chautauqua bash session with baited breath.

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 9):
Coex uses the Honeywell FMZ box, while Chautauqua uses the UNS. I've used them both. An airline that opts for the Universal is just screaming "cheap!".

Here's the story with that one. Every 135/145 that CHQ flies has a Honeywell. The only planes that have Universal FMSs are the 140s that operate as AA Connection out of STL. The reason that this particular group of airplanes have this layout is because when the AA contract was signed, the planes were ordered with AE specs so that AE could take them if and when the contract expired. So who's really cheap? American Eagle according to your logic. Nice cheapshot attempt though...  Yeah sure
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KAUSpilot
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:33 am



Quoting Loggat (Reply 14):
I guess it's kind of sad (using your phrase) that your company thinks you need 2 units when 1 does the job fine. Checked the MEL lately? (2 installed 0 required)

I used to work for AX and they had a whole bunch of second hand planes with various configurations (2 honeywell, 1 honeywell, 1 universal, 2 universal). They were all as shit as each other.

How is the Houston Koolaid factory doing these days anyway?

I await your next cheapshot and Chautauqua bash session with baited breath.

I'm sure Expressjet knows their pilots can operate with 1 or 0 FMS CDU's just fine, since 1/3rd of their fleet has a single CDU, and as you so eloquently pointed out, none are requried for departure. Perhaps they value the efficiency, safetey and additional level of communications that having at least one CDU almost always operable provides. I guess chitaco doesn't feel this way, which is hardly surprising.

I don't live in Houston and rarely go there, so I couldn't tell you abuot the koolaid. In any event, I'm sure it's not as tasty as whatever "reverend bedford" is serving up these days.
 
AAH732UAL
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:53 am

I smell a fight....... don't start till I get my lawn chair to watch  Smile
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A10WARTHOG
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:55 pm



Quoting Pilotpip (Reply 6):
You used the FMS for the ACARS too. No separate box.

Not ture with the universal system. I worked for AE we had 2 CDU , 2 FMC and 1 ACARS box.
You accessed the ACARS through the FMC.
 
airbuster
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:15 pm

anyone else notice that the top picture of the ERJ 135 flight deck has 2 different CDU's?
Is the left one just an older version performing the same functions, much like is done combining the 737 classic and NG FMC's in 1 flight deck?

ab
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loggat
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:06 pm



Quoting Airbuster (Reply 18):
Is the left one just an older version performing the same functions, much like is done combining the 737 classic and NG FMC's in 1 flight deck?

They updated the display (a little larger with slightly different font), and added one more button (the SP [space]) button on the number pad. The two units are interchangeable in any combination. The one on the right is actually the older one.

Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 16):
I smell a fight....... don't start till I get my lawn chair to watch

Sorry to disappoint, I don't really want to beat a dead horse.

This is my office now anyway which is an improvement on any ERJ. It runs on Reverend Bedford's own brand of koolaid.


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KAUSpilot
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:44 pm



Quoting Airbuster (Reply 18):
anyone else notice that the top picture of the ERJ 135 flight deck has 2 different CDU's?
Is the left one just an older version performing the same functions, much like is done combining the 737 classic and NG FMC's in 1 flight deck?

ab

Expressjet has two different types of CDU's....an older one with a CRT-type screen and hard plastic buttons (right side of the E135 picture above), and a newer one with a slightly larger LCD-type screen and soft rubber buttons (left side in the pic). Their operation is identical (except the newer one has a "space button", which is handy for writing love notes to dispatch), and the newer CDU's have a few extra buttons on top that don't seem to do anything on the ERJ installs.
 
DashTrash
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RE: ExpressJet FMC

Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:45 am



Quoting Loggat (Reply 14):
Here's the story with that one. Every 135/145 that CHQ flies has a Honeywell. The only planes that have Universal FMSs are the 140s that operate as AA Connection out of STL. The reason that this particular group of airplanes have this layout is because when the AA contract was signed, the planes were ordered with AE specs so that AE could take them if and when the contract expired. So who's really cheap? American Eagle according to your logic. Nice cheapshot attempt though... Yeah sure

My mistake. I was thinking (gasp) Mesa 145's. They have the single UNS box. (yes, I know they're on the Freedom certificate now.. they weren't always...)

Quoting Loggat (Reply 19):
This is my office now anyway which is an improvement on any ERJ. It runs on Reverend Bedford's own brand of koolaid.

Sorry, that's still an ERJ. The FAA says so on your type rating. You're right about Rev. Bedford's Kool Aid. Plenty of my friends have been hitting that punch bowl. I hope you're not one of them.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 10):
What do you prefer about the Honeywell?

The Honeywell box displays both vertical and lateral guidance on the same page. When I need VNAV, I don't have to go to a separate page to get it. I think overall the Universal is a good product, but the Honeywell is a little more versatile. I'm talking about the user interface only. The software on the Honeywell leaves lots of room for improvement.

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