vikinga346
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:45 pm

AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:04 am

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL85

To avoid weather? Seems like they added at least 30+ minutes by doing that route...
...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
 
Mir
Posts: 19107
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:40 am



Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):
To avoid weather?

Most likely. Seems too big a diversion for wind. That's probably not the route that they filed, but ATC would have amended it to that.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
oly720man
Posts: 5754
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:13 am

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:11 am

It wasn't alone

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL15
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL177

Weather related I'd imagine and maybe couldn't go south because of other traffic restrictions.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
dispatchguy
Posts: 606
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:08 am

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:08 pm

My guess is convective weather (thunderstorms) near to NYC, specifically to the west.
Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
 
dragon6172
Posts: 796
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:56 am

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:28 pm

Whats 30 minutes when they already departed 3 hours late? (based on the takeoff times over the previous flights).
Phrogs Phorever
 
Goldenshield
Posts: 5008
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 3:45 pm

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:05 pm

This was a pretty big line of weather. BWI was ground stopped, and nothing going west could depart for nearly 4 hours. It wasn't pretty.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
vikinga346
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:45 pm

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:01 pm

oh wow. Yea I"ve never seen taht big of a change to a FP.... Then again, I haven't looked al l that much. I just noticed by accident listening to liveatc.net and hearing AA 85 coming in real late at night when its supposed to get in around 6pm.
...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
 
BWilliams
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:41 pm

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:38 am



Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 3):
My guess is convective weather (thunderstorms) near to NYC, specifically to the west.

As a few people have already said, this is exactly it.

The route that United 15 took seems pretty common as a fallback from JFK to the west coast-- J95 up to Buffalo, over to Michigan, then somewhere west from there (in that case Green Bay), then pick up a straight western shot to the west coast.
Regards, Brad Williams
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:42 pm

Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):
To avoid weather? Seems like they added at least 30+ minutes by doing that route...

If you're talking about this one:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...5/history/20080713/2148Z/KJFK/KSFO

...they not only avoided weather (at a cost of additional minutes of flight time) but they avoided a 4-5 hour delay awaiting the weather to clear the NYC area itself. This particular escape route is called the "CAN_7_WEST" and it's one of many alternative routings in ATCSCC's "playbook" of alternative routings to get from various A-to-B points within the USA when there's weather in between then.

On the day in question (a bad one, and I was working it too elsewhere on the east coast), many other flights were using the same basic route as did the AA flight. ATCSCC puts these routes out in advance, and the airline's dispatchers plans and file them.

(If this doesn't format properly, try the original at the link at the bottom)

ATCSCC ADVZY 062 DCC 07/13/2008 ROUTE RMD
RAW TEXT:
ATCSCC ADVZY 062 DCC 07/13/08 ROUTE RMD
NAME: CAN_7_WEST
CONSTRAINED AREA: ZOB/ZNY
REASON: WEATHER

INCLUDE TRAFFIC: EWR/HPN/JFK/LGA/TEB/ZBW DEPARTURES TO
AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN/LAS/LAX/MSP/OAK/PDX/PHX/SAN/SEA/SFO/SJC/SLC
FACILITIES INCLUDED: ZBW/ZNY
FLIGHT STATUS: ALL_FLIGHTS
VALID: ETD 131835 TO 140200
PROBABILITY OF EXTENSION: MODERATE

REMARKS: THIS ROUTING REQUIRES AREA NAVIGATION CAPABILITY.
*******THIS IS AN OFFLOAD/OPTIONAL ROUTE ONLY. AVAILABLE
FOR ANY FLIGHTS THAT WANT TO FILE AND AVOID ZNY/ZOB AREAS.

THIS ADVZY REPLACE ADVZY #048.****
ASSOCIATED RESTRICTIONS: 40 MIT UNTIL 2200Z, THEN 50 MIT
MODIFICATIONS: THIS ADVZY ADDS MSP TO THE REROUTE.
ROUTES:
ORIG DEST ROUTE
---- ---- -----
EWR JFK LGA TEB MSP GREKI V419 JUDDS CAM BUGSY
HPN POLTY YYB SSM EAU EAU8
ZBW MSP BUGSY POLTY YYB SSM EAU
EAU8

FROM:
ORIG ROUTE - ORIGIN SEGMENTS
---- -----------------------
EWR JFK LGA TEB HPN GREKI V419 JUDDS CAM BUGSY
POLTY YYB SSM J140 FAR
ZBW BUGSY POLTY YYB SSM J140 FAR


TO:
DEST ROUTE - DESTINATION SEGMENTS
---- ----------------------------
AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN FAR ABR BFF LANDR5
LAS FAR ABR EKR J100 BCE LUXOR2
LAX FAR ABR EKR J100 BCE J60 HEC
CIVET5
OAK FAR DPR J32 MLD J32 FMG ILA
RAIDR2
PDX FAR MLS PDT BONVL5
PHX FAR SNY ALS GUP BUNTR2
SAN FAR ABR EKR J100 BCE J60 BLD
TNP BARET4
SEA FAR DIK MLP GLASR7
SFO FAR DPR J32 MLD J32 FMG ILA PYE
GOLDN5
SJC FAR ABR RAP OCS DTA TPH CANDA
HYP5
SLC FAR DPR J32 BOY BPI LHO3

http://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_other...31835+TO+140200&titleDate=07/13/08

This message depicts a re-route to MSP from various airports, and also from various airports to western destinations, with the common tie-in point being FAR.

[Edited 2008-07-15 05:50:35]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
vikinga346
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:45 pm

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:57 pm



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 8):
OPNLguy From United States, joined Jun 1999, 12243 posts, RR: 70

Thank You! Very helpful response. You obviously are a dispatcher or ATC of some sort?

Thanks!
...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
 
dispatchguy
Posts: 606
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:08 am

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:33 pm



Quoting VikingA346 (Reply 9):
You obviously are a dispatcher or ATC of some sort?

Yeah, he's a dispatcher for some US Major carrier...
Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
 
unattendedbag
Posts: 2154
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:35 pm

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:56 pm

Quoting VikingA346 (Thread starter):
To avoid weather? Seems like they added at least 30+ minutes by doing that route...

along with what OPNLguy stated (very informative), read this:

Flying North for the Summer

[Edited 2008-07-29 14:00:02]
Slower traffic, keep right
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:11 pm

Speaking of weird routing, I will never, ever understand the purpose of this one:

Big version: Width: 640 Height: 463 File size: 69kb


If anyone can enlighten me, it would be most appreciated.

2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
ebs757
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:45 pm

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:53 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 12):
Speaking of weird routing, I will never, ever understand the purpose of this one:

Talk about would you rather drive than fly...
Viva la Vida
 
CoolGuy
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:13 am

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:13 pm

I have a feeling it's generally not possible to go from New York to the west via the DC area during weather, because there's already too much traffic in that area. Or maybe the CO flight I was on just couldn't get that routing for some reason.
 
themightydude
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:33 pm

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:43 pm



Quoting Ebs757 (Reply 13):
Speaking of weird routing, I will never, ever understand the purpose of this one:




If anyone can enlighten me, it would be most appreciated.

2H4

Maybe a maintenance flight?

Though I'm suprised that comair is coming out of Dayton, as CVG is Comairs main hub..not DAY.

But from the looks of it...I would say they just finished a heavy check or maintenance on that bird.

Especially since CVG is only about a 1:30-2:00 hour drive from DAY.
themightydude
 
AAH732UAL
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:41 pm

RE: AA JFK-SFO Weird Flightplan

Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:16 pm



Quoting CoolGuy (Reply 14):
I have a feeling it's generally not possible to go from New York to the west via the DC area during weather, because there's already too much traffic in that area. Or maybe the CO flight I was on just couldn't get that routing for some reason.

Yes they could for 2 reasons.
1) Planes from NYC are alreay at Altitude when crossing.
2) The in-trail spacing is as it should

He is my personal flight plan for UAL27 JFK-LAX

N0457F400 DIXIE V1 CYN J110 LARRI J230 AIR AIR254 RGERS DCT KI51O DCT PXV DCT KK42I DCT KK39A DCT KA36W DCT FTI J244 ZUN J6 DRK J231 TNP PDZ4

I go sorta south and pick up the J230 at LARRI which is about 100NM north of DCA and IAD. Then the J230 runs parallel to the J134. Plus planes already file RBV(Robinsville) off the DPs at JFK and fly down into the North tip of Virgina anyway.
DME/DME RNP0.3 NA -Escalators don't break---- they just become stairs!

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