aileron11
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Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:08 pm

I did a search before i posted did not find anything sorry if i repeated. I work at ewr and i noticed that when all the airbus comes in from overseas then they park them on the hard stands the flaps and slats are left deployed i noticed it first on TAP thought it was mx issue then i saw LUF,SAS doing the same thing does anybody know what the reason is thanks.
Jersey Lou
 
VgnAtl747
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:13 pm

You might get a quicker answer in the tech ops forum on this. Do they do this just on turns or also during RON's?
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aileron11
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:28 pm

They do this both rons and turns, must be reason for it seems kind weired all of them are doing it.
Jersey Lou
 
Aircellist
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:49 pm

Would they simply save energy by doing so?
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777wt
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:18 pm

Are the flaps left in landing setting or takeoff setting? (takeoff settings requires less flaps than landing)

Might be the same way the do on the CRJ-200's, it's about reducing the use of the system...ie one less movement of the flaps system...instead of retracting fully, they just retract to the takeoff setting for the next flight.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:23 pm

Is there a Mx check scheduled out there,requiring Flap/slat extension.If so,they could be extended & power thereafter switched off,so the checks can be carried out later on in the day.
regds
MEL
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michi
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:42 pm

What is the OAT in EWR?
In case of hotter temperatures than 30°C it is required to leave them at 1+f after landing to prevent air bleed overheat warnings.
 hot 

Regards,
Michi
 
aileron11
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:03 am



Quoting Michi (Reply 6):
In case of hotter temperatures than 30°C it is required to leave them at 1+f after landing to prevent air bleed overheat warnings

Is this poor design from airbus or just something overlooked, seems like unnecessary procedure for expensive airplane
Jersey Lou
 
wn676
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:08 am



Quoting Michi (Reply 6):
In case of hotter temperatures than 30°C it is required to leave them at 1+f after landing to prevent air bleed overheat warnings.

Huh, well that explains a question I've been wanting to ask for a while...I noticed lately that most of the Airbus a/c coming into PHX leave the flaps extended. I figured it was something to do with the heat.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
flexo
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:15 pm



Quoting Michi (Reply 6):
In case of hotter temperatures than 30°C it is required to leave them at 1+f after landing to prevent air bleed overheat warnings.

Is this true for all Airbus aircraft or just a specific model?
 
DashTrash
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:14 am



Quoting 777WT (Reply 4):
Might be the same way the do on the CRJ-200's, it's about reducing the use of the system...ie one less movement of the flaps system...instead of retracting fully, they just retract to the takeoff setting for the next flight.

That's not the reason for Some CRJ's leaving the flaps set at 15. When the first few aircraft came off the production line, there was a problem with the flaps warping. An AD came out mandating the flaps be retracted after landing, then reset to 15 so they can be inspected for warping during the walk around. Bombardier finally fixed it, and operators of later model CRJs don't have to comply with it.

That's why you don't see PSA, Pinnacle, etc leaving flaps at 15 (maybe it's 8) while operators of the older models (Comair, Mesa, Air Willy) still do.

Maybe a CRJ pilot or mechanic will chime in on the subject and give more accurate info than I have. My info is second hand from a friend who hasn't flown one in a while.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:45 am



Quoting Michi (Reply 6):
In case of hotter temperatures than 30°C it is required to leave them at 1+f after landing to prevent air bleed overheat warnings.

Which types are you referring to.
Out here there is no such action apart for Mx work as mentioned above & the OATs can get between 30-45degC.
regds
MEL
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Tristarsteve
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:58 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):
Which types are you referring to.

Read the thread title MEL, its Airbus.
Here in ARN we practically never get Plus 30, so I have never seen it on an A320 series. I did have a QR A319 three weeks ago that arrived with Wing Bleed leak and Wing antice faults. The Capt apologised saying he had forgotten to leave the slats out on the ground at DOH.

But I regularly see A310 and A300 freighters parked all day with the slats out. There must be anther reason for this?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:53 pm



Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 12):
Read the thread title MEL, its Airbus.

I did.....But is it A318/330/340....because the rest of airbus types [A300/310/319/320/321] I've seen out here don't do that in high OATs.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
SWISSER
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:13 pm

At GF our procedures are to extend the flaps to 1+F as well when temperatures reach +30C

So that means almost 90% of the time in the gulf!
I heard it had to do with the expansion of the surface area's as well next to those bleed air overheat warnings.

Quoting Aileron11 (Reply 7):
Is this poor design from airbus or just something overlooked, seems like unnecessary procedure for expensive airplane

Maybe the other airplane designers did not discover this issue yet!
Or...they figured the Airbus wings are British, so it's meant to go bust pretty easely!  duck 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:42 pm

Intersetingly, I've noticed TP's A32X fleet has been doing the same recently. Slats deployed, flaps 15 or thereabouts. Seems T/O config, weird to see it while parked at the gate.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:27 am

Is this Temperature warranting Flap extension an SOP for all airlines.
I've checked with the few A320 series operators out here & none follow this procedure,so I was wondering why,as out here the OAT can be between 27-40degC in the day.
regds
MEL
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zeke
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:08 am

From the A320 FCOM

"FLAPS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . RETRACT
· Set the FLAP lever to position 0.
· If the approach was made in icing conditions, or if the runway was contaminated with
slush or snow, do not retract the flaps and slats until after engine shutdown and after
the ground crew has confirmed that flaps and slats are clear of obstructing ice.
· On ground, hot weather conditions may cause overheating to be detected around the
bleed ducts in the wings, resulting in "AIR L(R) WING LEAK" warnings. Such warnings
may be avoided during transit by keeping the slats in Configuration 1 when the OAT
is above 30°C."

Later aircraft have a modified system, they do not get this. Airlines operating a mixed fleet of modified and unmodified aircraft will ofter use the unmodified procedure across the whole fleet for standardization of procedures.
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norcal
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RE: Why Airbus Keep Flaps Deployed

Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:15 pm



Quoting 777WT (Reply 4):
Might be the same way the do on the CRJ-200's, it's about reducing the use of the system...ie one less movement of the flaps system...instead of retracting fully, they just retract to the takeoff setting for the next flight.

No the reason is described below

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 10):
That's not the reason for Some CRJ's leaving the flaps set at 15. When the first few aircraft came off the production line, there was a problem with the flaps warping. An AD came out mandating the flaps be retracted after landing, then reset to 15 so they can be inspected for warping during the walk around. Bombardier finally fixed it, and operators of later model CRJs don't have to comply with it.

The flap setting is 8 or 20 as there is no flap 15 on the -200. To make it clear, Bombardier never fixed the problem on the -200 (or if they did not to the satisfaction of the FAA) as every CRJ requires the flaps to be inspected before each flight for warping. Further if the aircraft doesn't have skew detection installed and you discover you need flaps 20 setting for take off you must go outside again and re-inspect the flaps once they have been extended. (The FO hates this when you tell he/she that they have to go back outside again) The CR7s and CR9s don't have this problem as Bombardier completely re-did the flap design on these aircraft. They added slats to the CR7 and CR9 instead of the straight leading edge the CRJ has. I don't mind it though, without slats we come screaming in on approaches. Typically only 747s can keep up or catch us.

There is also another AD that came out in 2007 (if my memory serves me correct) after a CRJ operator had a flap fail with flaps stuck at 45 degrees. They then had to fly to an alternate in that configuration and almost ran out of gas because of the drag.

The AD says you can't extend your flaps out of zero unless the RVR (precision) or RVR and ceiling (non precision) is confirmed to be at or above the minima for the approach in use and that they can be reasonably expected to remain that way. An emergency or abnormal situation doesn't have to meet this rule. Another way the operator can get around it is to provide enough fuel so that the aircraft can fly with the flaps fully extended to a suitable alternate and land with 1,000 lbs of gas onboard. That is a lot of gas and I can't think of any airline that uses that exemption in their flight planning.


A little OT I know, but Zeke did a good job and already explained the reason for the Airbus flap situation. I thought I would clear up the CRJ one.

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