Steelyman
Topic Author
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:40 am

Ctot + TT + Ops Times

Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:02 pm

At my home airport, BCN we have had many problems with ATC due to slot times.

For example two weeks ago a B742 that was parked in a remote stand that required push-back procedure missed their slot and then got a big big one.

The problem is the following:

The aircraft had its flight plan updated for 1415. Then there are 15 extra minutes in which the pilot can call the ATC and receive push-back clearance if they DO NOT have any CTOT.

But that day we had a CTOT for 1430. The pilot called the ATC at 1415 and push-back clearance was given so they started the push-back. As it is a 742, it takes at least 3 minutes for standard push-back and then another 5 minutes for the rest of engines that have not been previously turned on. Total time for the push-back is then 8 minutes. The aircraft was then ready to taxi to the runway at 1423, 7 minutes before the CTOT.

Usual Taxi Time at BCN is 20 minutes and so is stated at the NOTAMs (or that's what we have been told).

The aircraft arrived at 1438 at the runway and when they contacted ATC they were told that they had missed the CTOT. The crew asked for a delay and they got a CTOT for 2 hours later.

Then my question is, if the Taxi Time is 20 minutes why that aircraft was cleared to be pushed later than the "20 minutes before CTOT" time? Is this a ATC mistake?

Regards

Mike
BRGDS, Mike
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Ctot + TT + Ops Times

Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:26 pm



Quoting Steelyman (Thread starter):
Then my question is, if the Taxi Time is 20 minutes why that aircraft was cleared to be pushed later than the "20 minutes before CTOT" time? Is this a ATC mistake?

It's always been my experience that it's up the the crew to call for pushback and engine start at a time that will have them arrive at the runway configured and ready for dept. within the time envelope of the slot. I see it mostly between STN-CDG.
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Ctot + TT + Ops Times

Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:07 pm



Quoting CosmicCruiser (Reply 1):
It's always been my experience that it's up the the crew to call for pushback and engine start at a time that will have them arrive at the runway configured and ready for dept. within the time envelope of the slot. I see it mostly between STN-CDG.

Same. At least in the US it is not ATC's problem if they push back too late to meet an assigned EDCT (I think the same as you say CTOT...Ctot to me is something on a Saab 340 throttle/engines). Sounds like the ground crew/pilots didnt prepare to pushback to meet the wheels up time...in time.

ATCT
Trikes are for kids!
 
Steelyman
Topic Author
Posts: 108
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:40 am

RE: Ctot + TT + Ops Times

Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:29 pm

The difference is that they ask for push-back clearance 10 minutes before the CTOT (Calculated Take-Off Time) they do not get clearance... that's why I am asking if there is any difference in that.

Thanks for your answers!
BRGDS, Mike
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3373
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: Ctot + TT + Ops Times

Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:12 pm



Quoting Steelyman (Reply 3):
The difference is that they ask for push-back clearance 10 minutes before the CTOT (Calculated Take-Off Time) they do not get clearance...

If ATC set the push back time rules, then they are responsible.

Here at ARN it is up to te crew to arrange push back in time so they get to the holding point to be ready to take off inside the CTOT limits, here they are Minus 5 to Plus 10 minutes. The crew must make their own calculation for start up time and taxy time (and deicing time in the winter)

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