Sketty222
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:36 am

Flight Paths

Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:56 pm

I live just outside of Newcastle in the North East of England and on clear days I see loads of 747's, 767's, 777's, A340,s (and even an A380 yesterday, well it certainly looked like one) flying overhead.

With these aircraft being widebodies and flying so high, I was wondering if anyone knew which TA routes took such a northerly routing over the UK? Ive travelled TA a few times to the Eastern Seaboard and also Eastern Canada but have always flown over Wales and Southern Ireland.

My parents travelled to YYZ yesterday and they took a Northerly route over the UK but none of the flights Ive been on have.

Also, does anyone know the name of the flight space/corridor that passes over EGNT?

Is there anywhere on the internet I can look up more information regarding this corridor?

I hope someone can help (and also confirm whether it was an A380 flying overhead. The time was around 1345BST)


NB. The reason I want to take a northerly route over the UK is so that
a. I get the chance to see the city of Newcastle from the air and
b. I get to view Greenland whilst flying trans-atlantic
There's flying and then there's flying
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Flight Paths

Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:02 pm

The routes that are taken by transatlantic flights are part of what's called the North Atlantic Track System (NATS). The actual paths the routes take change almost daily to take advantage of weather conditions (jetstream comes to mind). Not all flights take the standard routes, some file their own path.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Tracks for a general description and a map showing most of the initial waypoints (albeit cut off in your neck of the woods).

http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/ has a map updated daily with the current (?) tracks for eastbound and westbound flights, see on the left under "international" where it says "Transatlantic Eastbound" and "Westbound".


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Sketty222
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:36 am

RE: Flight Paths

Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:08 pm



Quoting LY744 (Reply 1):
The routes that are taken by transatlantic flights are part of what's called the North Atlantic Track System (NATS). The actual paths the routes take change almost daily to take advantage of weather conditions (jetstream comes to mind). Not all flights take the standard routes, some file their own path.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Tracks for a general description and a map showing most of the initial waypoints (albeit cut off in your neck of the woods).

http://www.turbulenceforecast.com/ has a map updated daily with the current (?) tracks for eastbound and westbound flights, see on the left under "international" where it says "Transatlantic Eastbound" and "Westbound".


LY744.

Many thanks for that, I'll take a look now
There's flying and then there's flying
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Flight Paths

Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:34 pm

Further to what LY744 said, I suspect the flights you see over Newcastle originate further west in Europe, such as Germany, Poland, etc, since those originating in the UK are likely to take a more north-westerly route to those fixed entry points, rather than flogging up the east coast - AFAIK.
 
Sketty222
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:36 am

RE: Flight Paths

Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:51 pm



Quoting David L (Reply 3):
Further to what LY744 said, I suspect the flights you see over Newcastle originate further west in Europe, such as Germany, Poland, etc, since those originating in the UK are likely to take a more north-westerly route to those fixed entry points, rather than flogging up the east coast - AFAIK.

That has crossed my mind as I dont seem to see many BA aircraft (blue bottom) but I do see a lot of white aircraft ala AF and LH.
There's flying and then there's flying
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18974
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Flight Paths

Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:49 pm

This is the website of the two ATC centers that control North Atlantic air traffic. The "Airspace" and "Pilots" links give a good description of the procedures. The "Current NATs" link has the current day's eastbound and westbound tracks.
http://occ.ivao.ca/index.php

They could probably delete the "Concorde operations" information in the "Pilots" section.  

This is another general description:
http://atc.aviation.ca/index.php?opt..._content&task=view&id=58&Itemid=60

[Edited 2008-07-28 15:55:13]

[Edited 2008-07-28 15:56:10]
 
LUPOR1D
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:41 pm

RE: Flight Paths

Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:51 pm

NATS start/end 300 miles off the Western Irish Coast. They do not go over Newcastle lol!

They are merely routing from the NATS to Europe to their destinations via the airways- the one you are witnessing is most likely the UL975.

Depending on where you're going from it depends on routing from airport to NAT- only stuff going to the US West coast (LAX etc) would take the northerly NATS. Even still, most east coast items out of London will route either on the UL9 to SHA and onwards or over CRK....

Its a vast subject....I could talk for days...

[Edited 2008-07-28 15:54:22]

[Edited 2008-07-28 15:55:04]
Always lurking.
 
Sketty222
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:36 am

RE: Flight Paths

Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:10 pm



Quoting LUPOR1D (Reply 6):
They are merely routing from the NATS to Europe to their destinations via the airways- the one you are witnessing is most likely the UL975.

Depending on where you're going from it depends on routing from airport to NAT- only stuff going to the US West coast (LAX etc) would take the northerly NATS. Even still, most east coast items out of London will route either on the UL9 to SHA and onwards or over CRK....

Thats very helpful information. I know when Ive checked my flights to the USA via flightaware I have noticed UL9 and KENNET in there so I think most of my flighhts have taken pretty much the same course.
There's flying and then there's flying
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Flight Paths

Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:53 pm



Quoting LUPOR1D (Reply 6):
They are merely routing from the NATS to Europe to their destinations via the airways- the one you are witnessing is most likely the UL975.

Depending on where you're going from it depends on routing from airport to NAT- only stuff going to the US West coast (LAX etc) would take the northerly NATS. Even still, most east coast items out of London will route either on the UL9 to SHA and onwards or over CRK....

Its a vast subject....I could talk for days...

Is there any way to view European enroute charts (Sectionals/Low IFR/High IFR... or whatever their Euro equivalents are) online, like http://www.skyvector.com for the U.S. and part of Canada?


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Flight Paths

Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:23 am



Quoting LUPOR1D (Reply 6):
NATS start/end 300 miles off the Western Irish Coast. They do not go over Newcastle lol!

I don't think anyone said that. I think you'll find we were talking about routing to the entry points. In any case, there are three main longitudes for the westbound track entry points (from memory) - 8oW south of Ireland, 15oW adjacent to Ireland and 10oW north of Ireland...

http://jetvision.de/nattracks.shtml
 
 
LUPOR1D
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:41 pm

RE: Flight Paths

Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:53 am

Always lurking.
 
oly720man
Posts: 5743
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Flight Paths

Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:42 pm

If you want a nearly live view of what's going on, go to www.openatc.com and view in google earth. You'll get a view like this, a screenshot from a few minutes ago with 3 x NW and a THY aircraft in your area

Big version: Width: 575 Height: 650 File size: 297kb


This is not an "official" service, rather people with the appropriate equipment supplying the feeds of info. So some days it may not be working.

The UK is pretty well covered, on a good day

Big version: Width: 600 Height: 480 File size: 287kb
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
Sketty222
Topic Author
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:36 am

RE: Flight Paths

Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:11 pm



Quoting Oly720man (Reply 12):
If you want a nearly live view of what's going on, go to www.openatc.com and view in google earth. You'll get a view like this, a screenshot from a few minutes ago with 3 x NW and a THY aircraft in your area

That is fantastic info....I'll have a look now and I suppose that it does confirm that most aircraft that fly over my area are from the continent or further afield

Lee
There's flying and then there's flying
 
User avatar
auroralives
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:17 am

RE: Flight Paths

Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:12 pm



Quoting Oly720man (Reply 12):
If you want a nearly live view of what's going on, go to www.openatc.com and view in google earth.

And just when I thought Google Earth couldn't get any cooler...  bigthumbsup 

Thanks for this!
 
oly720man
Posts: 5743
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Flight Paths

Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:49 pm



Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 13):
That is fantastic info.



Quoting AuroraLives (Reply 14):
And just when I thought Google Earth couldn't get any cooler... bigthumbsup

Thanks for this!

Yes, it's a great site.

If you click on the icon for a particular aircraft it'll show the hexcode that is unique to each aircraft and, with a bit of googling, e.g.

http://www.snowcrash.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/SBS20080618I.htm

you should be able to get the registration.

For example, just over the north sea is

Big version: Width: 348 Height: 262 File size: 42kb


and the hexcode 4B18AE corresponds to HB-JJA


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Nathan Zalcman - AirTeamImages

wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Flight Paths

Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:07 pm



Quoting AuroraLives (Reply 14):
Quoting Oly720man (Reply 12):
If you want a nearly live view of what's going on, go to www.openatc.com and view in google earth.

And just when I thought Google Earth couldn't get any cooler...  bigthumbsup 

Thanks for this!

Ditto.  Smile
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Flight Paths

Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:58 pm



Quoting LUPOR1D (Reply 11):
This PDF http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/iaip/Publ.../AIP%20Files/ENR/EI_ENR_3_2_en.pdf

Shows Irish upper airways- note the oceanic entry points



http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/enr/EG_ENR_6_2_1_1_en.pdf - An oceanic airspace assignment chart

http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/enr/EG_ENR_6_3_2_1_en.pdf UK Airways south

http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/enr/EG_ENR_6_3_2_2_en.pdf Airways north

Lovely, thanks!

If anyone has such links for other parts of the world, please do share.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Flight Paths

Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:01 am



Quoting Sketty222 (Reply 4):
That has crossed my mind as I dont seem to see many BA aircraft (blue bottom) but I do see a lot of white aircraft ala AF and LH.

You probably won't see AF planes either, since they tend to route up the Western UK if they need to access the high-latitude tracks. You'll probably get a lot of LH and KL, and the Eastern European carriers. LX perhaps depending on where the tracks are.

Quoting LUPOR1D (Reply 6):
Depending on where you're going from it depends on routing from airport to NAT- only stuff going to the US West coast (LAX etc) would take the northerly NATS.

True, but the southern-most tracks could be quite far north if the conditions are right for it, and then you might get everyone using the southern tracks.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests