lordarpad
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:23 pm

Cessna 421 Successor?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:12 pm

Hiya

I have been thinking about a potential successor to the Cessna 421 using the aerodynamics of the Piaggio Avanti P.180 and the 4l Centurion Diesel engines.

I figure that one should be able to get up to something like 260 to 300 kts with 2 + 5 seats and potty, as well as something like 1500 nm range.

Does anybody see merit in that kind of plane?
 
wingscrubber
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 1:38 am

RE: Cessna 421 Successor?

Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:37 pm

The Citation Mustang already fills that gap, it cruises 340 knots for 1167 nm range, and seats up to 5 plus pilots, according to wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_Citation_Mustang

I like the sound of your idea though... definately feasible, question is who will buy it while VLJs are so in-vogue.
Resident TechOps Troll
 
lordarpad
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:23 pm

RE: Cessna 421 Successor?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:23 am

VLJs have tiny cabins and are a fair bit more expensive (especially fuelwise!) than what I am envisioning.

I am simply thinking that we will live to see 300$/barrel oil prices and that one probably won't want to fly jets when that has happened. Also the bird itself would be cheaper.
 
meister808
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2000 11:45 am

RE: Cessna 421 Successor?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 6:37 am

I think the aircraft we have currently filling this market segment most directly would be the enormously successful Pilatus PC-12. Compare fuel burns, speeds, cabin volumes, and you will see the 2 aircraft are very close.

-Meister
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
 
lordarpad
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:23 pm

RE: Cessna 421 Successor?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:25 am

My problem is

a) fuel consumption of a turboprop and
b) the single-enginedness of the PC-12, as in Europe you are a bit more likely to fly over
water. Climb rate after engine failure for the PC-12 frankly sucks  Wink
 
lordarpad
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:23 pm

RE: Cessna 421 Successor?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:20 am

Centurion 4.0 fuel burn is 11.6 gph so for 2 engines we are talking about 23.2 gph compared to the PC-12's 64 gph ...

The PC-12 is not exactly aerodynamically advanced IMO
 
meister808
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2000 11:45 am

RE: Cessna 421 Successor?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:35 pm



Quoting Lordarpad (Reply 4):
b) the single-enginedness of the PC-12, as in Europe you are a bit more likely to fly over
water. Climb rate after engine failure for the PC-12 frankly sucks

Well, yeah, but I think the failure rate of a PT6-A67 compared to the failure rate of the old GTSIO-520 is enough risk management for me if I'm sitting behind the controls. Hell, there's even the old argument that a single is safer if an engine quits close to the ground because there's less of a decision to make. I'm not sure I agree too much with that one, but you will have it. I'm not sure what the failure rate of the Centurion 4.0 is, but I'd imagine even if it is very good it will have miles to go before it gets close to a turboprop.

Quoting Lordarpad (Reply 5):
Centurion 4.0 fuel burn is 11.6 gph so for 2 engines we are talking about 23.2 gph compared to the PC-12's 64 gph ...

I was comparing the 421 to the PC-12, and I was basing the numbers on 350-400 pph for the Pilatus and about 350 pph for the 421. You are correct, the Centurion would greatly shift the economics.

-Meister
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
 
lordarpad
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:23 pm

RE: Cessna 421 Successor?

Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:11 pm

well, that is why I am thinking successor. The Centurion 4.0 will hopefully eventually be usable for reengining the 421, but the 421 is a bit on the slow side. And for the kind of run I am envisioning like EIWT to BMA or ideally to ESCM and shit weather over Irish Sea and North Sea I think I'd still be more comfy with 2 engines.

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