naritaflyer
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Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:01 pm

What's the slowest speed at which a jet aircraft can safely land? I think the normal landing speed is 140 knots? Can it be slower?
 
767driver
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:03 pm

Much slower....an empty 757 lands at around 110kts
 
474218
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:10 pm



Quoting Naritaflyer (Thread starter):
What's the slowest speed at which a jet aircraft can safely land? I think the normal landing speed is 140 knots?

Harrier and the F-35B can land at zero (0) knots.
 
peachair
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:27 pm

Depends on the type of jet.

The Cessna Citation (500/501/550/560) etc all the straight wing aircraft can land at 110kts.

Also - when flying in the jumpseat on Transbrasil 767-200 (back in 1997) from GRU to GIG we approached the GIG airport at 129kts. (We also use 5 degrees flaps for tkeoff - something we dont do here in the USA)

THX
 
wilco737
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:41 pm



Quoting Naritaflyer (Thread starter):

An empty MD11 is pretty close to that 140. maybe 138 or so. but with MLAW we approach with 173 knots  Wink

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AAH732UAL
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:48 pm

Heck IIRC the A330 has a Vref that can get as low as like 100kts I think.
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pilotpip
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:50 pm

Vref on the 170 can get down below 110 when it's light with flaps full.
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DeltaGuy
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:20 pm

V-ref on the G-V, with those massive wings, can get into the low teens, 115 or so. On the G-IV with much smaller wings, it's 15 knots or so higher.

DeltaGuy
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jgarrido
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:26 pm

I've seen a T-37 do 100 kts GS still outside the FAF.
 
767driver
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:26 pm



Quoting PeachAir (Reply 3):
Depends on the type of jet.

The Cessna Citation (500/501/550/560) etc all the straight wing aircraft can land at 110kts.

Also - when flying in the jumpseat on Transbrasil 767-200 (back in 1997) from GRU to GIG we approached the GIG airport at 129kts. (We also use 5 degrees flaps for tkeoff - something we dont do here in the USA)

THX

5 degrees for takeoff is standard at my airline on the 757/767. Why would it matter if you're here in the states or overseas? It's usually company specific
 
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Moose135
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:18 pm



Quoting Jgarrido (Reply 8):
I've seen a T-37 do 100 kts GS still outside the FAF.

Approach speed on the Tweet was 110kts for instrument approaches, 100kts on final in the overhead.
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Goldenshield
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:56 am

Now, by jet, what are you implying? A turbojet, turbofan, or turboprop? And, are we talking single, or multiple engines?
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tb727
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:13 am

A light Lear 23 is down around 93 KIAS. Depending on the wing a Lear 24/25 can have a ref of anywhere in the 117 range to 147 I think it was.

A nearly empty Falcon 20 is 110 KIAS or 107 KIAS, depending the engine differences and the 2 different travel options on the rudder (23 deg vs 30 deg).

Most of the time we "cross the fence" at Ref+10 and touch down at Ref.
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rwessel
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:45 am

Several people have built self-launching sailplanes with small jet engines. Those would have a landing speed in the mid-40kt range.
 
G4Doc2004
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:04 pm

The Citation Sovereign (CE680) can be landed down in the 92-95KT range depending on weight. I flew the sim at ICT and got it down to 89KT, but I don't think that would ever happen in a real scenario. Just a couple of mechaincs in Flight Safety MX training goofing around at 2AM........
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SlamClick
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:33 pm

A quick glance at a "not for operational use" chart gives this:

Boeing 737-300; Flaps 40; Landing Weight of 78000 lbs (A) gives me a VSO (B) extrapolated from VREF chart is 82.3 knots.

Same airplane at 132300 lbs, same flaps, the speed is 112.3 Knots.

(A) A weight probably typical for empty airplane, two pilots, enough fuel to make a takeoff and landing with reserves.

(B) Stall speed, or minimum steady flight speed in the landing configuration.


Unofficial, but fairly trustworthy. Of course the 'point three' on each number is a bit finer than I can read off the old round dial so you won't catch me anywhere near those numbers except on rollout.
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Ward86IND
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:20 pm



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 15):
Boeing 737-300; Flaps 40; Landing Weight of 78000 lbs (A) gives me a VSO (B) extrapolated from VREF chart is 82.3 knots.

Same airplane at 132300 lbs, same flaps, the speed is 112.3 Knots.

I find this extremely hard to believe....132,300 lbs on the 733 is quite a load...i would expect a VREF in the 140 knot range at least...

of course that's my non-expert opinion, maybe some B737 pilots could offer their insight
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SlamClick
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:56 pm

Quoting Ward86IND (Reply 16):
I find this extremely hard to believe....132,300 lbs on the 733 is quite a load...i would expect a VREF in the 140 knot range at least...

You are quite right.
You are talking about VREF
I posted VSO which, again, is stall speed or minimum steady flight speed in the landing configuration. (in this case Flaps 40)

VREF is standardized at 1.3 VSO so the actual numbers were:

78000 lbs VREF 107 knots. (107 / 1.3 = 82.3)
132200 lbs VREF 146 knots (146 / 1.3 = 112.3)

VAPP where it is called that, is VREF plus wind or any other required additive.

Now with regard to the o/p question regarding minimum speed at which one can safely land, well that is a discussion with more to do with definitions and expression than with flight ops matters. Some (non airline) operators might use an approach speed of 1.1 VSO which, assuming competence and due care is "safe"

When does one "land" the plane. I've had a touchdown speed of about 67 knots indicated after an approach with a VREF of well over a hundred knots. The engines were stuck in a high idle condition and I got in ground effect and probably even had a measure of "effective weight reduction by thrust vectoring" as well. We just wallowed along just off the ground unable to get it down but we were a very long way from running out of runway. Safe? Sure, or I would have gone around. (not safe in this case)

[Edited 2008-08-26 11:02:11]

[Edited 2008-08-26 11:05:15]
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2H4
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:41 pm



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 12):
2 different travel options on the rudder

What are the benefits to each travel option?

2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
Ward86IND
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:24 am



Quoting SlamClick (Reply 17):
You are quite right.
You are talking about VREF
I posted VSO which, again, is stall speed or minimum steady flight speed in the landing configuration. (in this case Flaps 40)

Oops sorry...i didnt see the VSO there. now it makes sense
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MHG
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:53 pm

Just want to throw in a not yet mentioned type: YAK-40

I have no clue how low it´s minimum speed is but would expect less than 100 kts (even its cruise speed is less than 300 kts ...)

Maybe someone could check out this type ???
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CWAFlyer
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:50 pm

A friend of mind who is a retired TWA captain told me that if the 727-100 was light enough, 103 knots Vref was not unheard of.
 
BigSaabowski
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:34 pm



Quoting Jgarrido (Reply 8):
I've seen a T-37 do 100 kts GS still outside the FAF.

Any jet can do 100kts GS with the right headwind.
 
2H4
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:13 pm



Quoting BigSaabowski (Reply 22):
Any jet can do 100kts GS with the right headwind.

Even less with the right treadmill...

2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
lowrider
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:45 am

On the 74 classic I have seen ref less than 120. Can't remember the exact number, but it was in "100 teens". It is like landing a kite. For comparison, at MLW Flaps 25 ref is 162.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 23):
Even less with the right treadmill...

Aww, not this again.
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airbuster
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:10 pm

on a side note, i believe i read that the airbii use air from the bleed system to blow over the trailing edge of the wing, to so increase the lifting force of the wing at lower speeds without the need to fly faster. Resulting in a reduced FAS. anyone that can confirm the story

On the fokker jetlines they can land between 110 to around 150 FAS, there are speeds below 110 that are available but the ATS will freak out below that speed.
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SlamClick
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:50 pm



Quoting Airbuster (Reply 25):
airbii use air from the bleed system to blow over the trailing edge of the wing, to so increase the lifting force of the wing at lower speeds without the need to fly faster. Resulting in a reduced FAS. anyone that can confirm the story

I think I can confirm that it is not true.

They may have conducted BLC tests as so many manufacturers have, but not on a production Airbus.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:39 am



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 23):
Even less with the right treadmill...

Uh oh...  duck 
What gets measured gets done.
 
jgarrido
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:17 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 23):

Even less with the right treadmill...

a frictionless treadmill?
 
2H4
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:46 pm



Quoting Jgarrido (Reply 28):
a frictionless treadmill?

I much prefer the kind with the optional "magical force" package.

2H4
Intentionally Left Blank
 
pjflysfast
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RE: Slowest Landing Speed For A Jet Aircraft

Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:44 pm

I watched a global 5000 land at 90knts once! There was a head wind that day and they were light. But They normally land at 110knts to 105knts

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