Blackbird
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JAL Flight reported UFO's

Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:14 am

I'm not a believer in UFO's, at least one's of alien origin... though I have heard one really crazy story -- I briefly read something about a JAL flight encountering two or three UFO's, of which two looked like two lines with a several rows of nozzles on either side that went from a distant target to up in their face in parallel flight, to a vertical formation (one on top of the other), the Captain said they were about the size of a DC-8 in the early morning hours of Nov 17, 1986.

Somewhere along the way they said they saw something shaped like a wall-nut with a ridge down the middle (like a nut with a flared equator) that was the larger than the 747 they were in and was possibly as big as 300 meters to 600 meters (1 to 2 times the size of an aircraft carrier). It would seem as if it just disappeared as they never mentioned anything about it leaving.

It's the craziest thing I've ever read and there's actual documented recordings from the crew and it's contacts between the controller and the military and the controller.

Has anyone ever heard of this? What the hell happened up there?


Blackbird
 
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Starlionblue
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JAL Flight reported UFO's

Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:08 am

If it is documented, where are these documents?

Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
What the hell happened up there?

Judging from previous UFO sightings, one of the following:
- An optical illusion.
- Some naturally occurring phenomenon like a backlit cloud.
- A tall tale.
- A secret military aircraft.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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HAWK21M
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JAL Flight reported UFO's

Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:21 am

Any link to these documented sightings.
regds
MEL
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Starglider
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JAL Flight reported UFO's

Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:26 am

Source please?  ghost 


Starglider
 
Starglider
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JAL Flight reported UFO's

Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:48 pm

I dug into this issue a bit and found the "complete report." Although a fascinating read I have found what appear to be a few inconsistancies and I quote:

1: "A bright moon helped with the visibility for the night flight over Greenland, but as the plane continued over northern Canada the moon set behind them. When the plane reached an air route reporting point in far northwestern Canada called "Shingle Point" the sky ahead was dark except for an afterglow of sun in the west."

Although I realize that while traveling on a subsonic airliner, heavenly bodies such as the Moon and Sun are sort of "frozen in time" when flying from east to west, I don't believe the Moon would set behind them after first having "aided with visibility", implying it was near its zenith for most of the flight? The Moon sets in the West, not the East, you would have to fly well into the supersonic range to have it set behind you. I have flown several times on such routes (subsonically) and you usually lose a few hours between local take-off time and local landing time. Meaning that Sun and Moon would still set in the West, not East.


2: "The United Airlines aircraft was coming close to us. We knew that they were watching us. When the United plane came by our side the spaceship disappeared suddenly and [b]there was nothing left but the light of the moon."['b]

The moon had set, hadn't it?

Furthermore the report refers to the fact that the crew had refused an offer from ATC to have airforce jets scramble from only 40 miles away to investigate?

ATC asked a United flight to check while flying an opposite course relative to the JAL flight.

3: "When the planes were about 12 miles apart and still approaching one another, the UA plane reported seeing the JAL plane and nothing else. By this time the "mothership" had apparently disappeared:


5:50:35 UA69 - UA69 heavy. We've got the Japan Airliner in sight. I don't see anybody around him. He's (referring to the "spaceship") at his seven o'clock position, huh?"

Refusing an offer from ATC and when opposing traffic only spots the JAL flight leaves a few questions to be answered. One of them is: have the crew during the flight been in the cargo compartment? After all, the cargo included a shipment of French wine . . . drunk 

Here is a link:
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc1316.htm

A sceptic,
Starglider
 
Blackbird
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RE: JAL Flight Reported UFO's

Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:23 pm

Starglider,

I'm not exactly a 'believer' either. However, I *am* kind of curious as to what actually happened -- what did they *actually* see?

- Optical-Illusion
- Atmospheric Phenomena
- Top-Secret Aircraft
- Mass-Hysteria
- Drank a little bit too much of that imported French-Wine?


Blackbird
 
Starglider
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RE: JAL Flight Reported UFO's

Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:31 pm

Basically, nothing can be ruled out until evidence to the contrary is presented.

Most likely the crew may have been tired and dusk can play tricks on you, so most likely a combination of optical illusion, tiredness and perhaps, depending on cockpit discipline a case of "the captain is always right" (he sighted those lights first). . .?

I do find the behaviour of the captain a bit strange, flying in a circle to try and establish if the unidentified traffic would, or would not follow which obviously takes quite some time but refusing assistance offered to have the situation checked out by a flight of F-15s only minutes flying away.

Apparently, when interviewed several weeks later, the reason was to "protect" such a flight from encountering the same fate as Mantell met with his F-51 in 1948. That strikes me as a bit odd, to think of that particular incident of so many years back and use it to reject an offer for checking something not yet identified as "a space ship." However, he did not reject the offer by ATC to have the United Airlines flight check things out (he had no choice, now did he?). That United flight could have met the same fate as any scrambled flight according to the captain's train of thought. . . . . and this flight had perhaps hundreds of passengers on board. That must have been some lucky flight, finding nothing out there but the JAL.  Yeah sure

He had quite some time (weeks) to come up with that Mantell story to justify his rejection. I bet he probably did not even know about the Mantell incident until he did some research AFTER the incident.


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HAWK21M
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RE: JAL Flight Reported UFO's

Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:15 am



Quoting Starglider (Reply 6):
I do find the behaviour of the captain a bit strange, flying in a circle to try and establish if the unidentified traffic would, or would not follow which obviously takes quite some time but refusing assistance offered to have the situation checked out by a flight of F-15s only minutes flying away.

Thats where the doubt arises....If you see a strange occurance...Wouldn't you want the best help you could get.....What more that some AF jets.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Blackbird
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RE: JAL Flight Reported UFO's

Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:33 pm

Just out of curiousity: Regarding the crash of Captain Mantell's F-51: Why was there no blood in the cockpit? Wouldn't the poor guy have been splattered all over the place?


Blackbird
 
Starglider
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RE: JAL Flight Reported UFO's

Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:40 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 8):
Wouldn't the poor guy have been splattered all over the place?

Not if he chased and flew into a lenticular cloud which can contain a nasty rotor system. That might have thrown his plane into a flat spin, cloud spewed it out and trashed it on terra firma. From what i recall the wreckage was confined to a relatively small area.

An aircraft in a flat spin has lost most of its kenetic energy which could explain this. He might have broken all the bones and organs in his body without losing a drop of blood.



Starglider
 
Blackbird
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RE: JAL Flight Reported UFO's

Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:24 pm

Starglider,

So it's likely that he got into a flat-spin?


Blackbird
BTW: Was the "UFO" he was chasing the Lenticular-Cloud? If so, how high up do those clouds typically form at?
 
Starglider
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RE: JAL Flight Reported UFO's

Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:50 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 10):
So it's likely that he got into a flat-spin?

Don't know for sure but perhaps he did if a rotor system was a factor. A witness also claimed that the aircraft encountered an explosion at approx. 20,000 ft on its way down which may also have affected the aircraft stability in a negative way with parts detaching and maybe already in a spin, to go into a flat-spin.

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 10):
how high up do those clouds typically form at

They form near hills or mountains and depending on the atmospheric circumstances can reach altitudes of 35,000 ft.


Starglider
 
cal764
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RE: JAL Flight Reported UFO's

Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:36 pm

I saw a program on the History Channel a program about pilots reporting UFO's in flight and this was one of the examples...I saw it a few months ago and they had ATC recordings of this occurrence...
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