EA772LR
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757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:39 am

I was just wondering, for any of you guys and gals that have flown 757s and MD-90s, which one has the better takeoff performance-as in more thrilling. I remember flying on the 757 as a kid and I remember it felt like I was on an elevator. I have yet to ride on an MD-90, but my best chance is DL. All opinions welcomed!

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EA772LR
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:55 am

On a side note, here is an amazing DC-10 demo!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEdH7b3OdC8&NR=1
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Starlionblue
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:32 am

The problem with this question is that you will have a hard time finding good data. Weights and atmospherics vary widely and have big effects on performance. Also, airlines don't care so much about it "feeling cool".  Wink
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TSS
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:32 am

My very first jet flight was on a Delta MD-90.

It was raining that morning and the clouds were very low. To get above the weather as soon as possible, the pilot wasn't shy using the throttles on takeoff. To say I was pressed back in my seat would be an understatement.

I've since flown on numerous 757s, but I've never experienced a takeoff to compare with that first one on an MD-90.
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lax25r
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:10 am

Two things are very noticable on the MD90 from a passenger standpoint. The first is how quiet it is. The engines are incredibly quiet even if you are sitting towards the rear. I don't know if it's because the engines are so quiet or what, but it seems that you can hear a lot more runway noise--like the nosewheel going over the lights in the runway.

The only thing I dislike about the MD90 is that when the engines spool up, air comes shotting out of the PSU should you have the air vent open. It's pretty comical to see everyone raising their hands to turn down their own air at the same time on takeoff.
 
njxc500
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:42 am

I have wondered the same for a long time. I think the key is the thrust to weight ratio, combined with design for short field operation, which usually leads to a high ratio, as mentioned, but also to wing design and other things.

I have ridden on md90s a couple times, but I've never ridden on a 757. I have however been on a test flight of a bombardier global 5000. That thing is designed to operate out of shorter fields, so it was shortened from the express, and one less fuel tank. But on the day I rode in it, they used short field procedures, and we had relatively little fuel on board. Anything that wasn't strapped in was sliding back to the baggage hold, and I was facing backwards. It's a little tough without a headrest. My guess is 5 seconds from brake release to airborn, and another five we were at 40 degrees nose up.......

I'm sure with a light load, the 757 is fast, but unfortunately I can't compare.

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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:27 am

Interestingly enough, and this is just based off of "feel" in the cabin, id put the MD-88 in front of the MD90 and 757. But that's just my opinion. Just so you know for tech and data reasons, all are Delta metal.
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AAR90
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:06 pm

MD90... hands down winner for short-haul flight. Longer the distance (more fuel = more weight) the more the 757-200 (RR engines) starts to shine.

Based upon personal experience flying nearly identical short-haul flights from short runways: KSNA-KSFO/KSJC.
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:19 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
Also, airlines don't care so much about it "feeling cool".

Good answer, (all of it - not just what I quoted).

We've had conversations about performance before, and about how you're better off getting your engine to optimum operating altitude as soon as possible. But no-one will do that at the expense of excessive use during climb. The maths just don't work out.

Incidentally, the steepest climb I have ever experienced was a near-empty Virgin 747-400 in fog and freezing cold weather from Heathrow. It felt at first like a normal lightweight climb. It ended up feeling like we were going straight to the moon. I've been flying for every one of the 35 years of my life and I have never been so impressed (and a little frightened) as I was that dark November morning.

(Edit : Grammar)

[Edited 2008-09-22 10:19:42]
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AirframeAS
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:40 pm

Any flight out of SNA rocks! Ive done the 73G on WN....and that was awesome!  bigthumbsup 
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:07 am



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):
Any flight out of SNA rocks! Ive done the 73G on WN....and that was awesome!

Naw... they're "wimps" compared to the MD90 flying the same flight. Heavier basic airframe with about 10% less thrust. Nice, but nowhere near as much fun. hyper 
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:57 am



Quoting LAX25R (Reply 4):
Two things are very noticable on the MD90 from a passenger standpoint. The first is how quiet it is. The engines are incredibly quiet even if you are sitting towards the rear. I

I personally found that at the back of the MD90 it was very loud! I wouldn't want to spend any time on the back of that plane!
 
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:40 pm



Quoting AAR90 (Reply 10):

Any flight out of SNA is awesome regardless of aircraft type. Ive done the 73G and A320 out of there. And they BOTH were pretty steep! Still awesome in my book....the #1 airport I chose when going to/from the Los Angeles area.
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Illini_152
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:22 am

LR-60. Brake release to FL410 in 17 minutes at max takeoff weight and ISA.

ISA -10 with 3 hours of fuel and 2 pax (20,000lb TOGW) you can get there in 10.8 minutes.
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:44 am



Quoting Illini_152 (Reply 13):
LR-60. Brake release to FL410 in 17 minutes at max takeoff weight and ISA.

Yeah, I am with Illini on this one, just about any Learjet would kick an Md-90 or 757's ass any day, even heavy. If you are light, forget about it, if you don't know what you are doing you better do a de-rated takeoff or you will have an altitude bust. I took a fairly light 25 from ground to FL190 in just under 3 minutes and that particular one is the pig of the fleet and the VSI was still pegged almost all the way up!
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atlturbine
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:27 am

A personal observation...As a nonrev on Delta I have been denied boarding on MD-88's in the western US during the summer months due to weight restrictions on numerous occasions. (TUS, PHX & SLC specifically) I have never been denied boarding due to weight restrictions on a Boeing aircraft.

757-200 gross weight 255,000 lb (115,680 kg)
757-200 max thrust Rolls-Royce RB211-535E4 40,200 lb (179 kN)

Rolls-Royce RB211-535E4B 43,500 lb (193.5 kN)

Pratt & Whitney PW2037 36,600 lb (162.8 kN)

Pratt & Whitney PW2040 40,100 lb (178.4 kN)

MD-90-30 gross weight 156,000 lb (70,760 kg)
MD-90-30 max thrust International Aero V2525-D5 25,000 lb (11,340 kg)

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/out_of_production.html

I have flown on MD-90's many times & think they are good airplanes! (first stage IV commercial aircraft I think)

I understand that so much of climb ability has to to with the wing design etc. I am admittedly biased on this issue only because I have worked on & flown on the 757 for so many years. The takeoff performance of this airplane is incredible!

Check out this AWESOME video of a 757 short takeoff....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEoDW6t0SWE
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:04 am



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 14):
I took a fairly light 25 from ground to FL190 in just under 3 minutes

At what altitude did you start levelling off?

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atlturbine
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:41 am



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 14):
Yeah, I am with Illini on this one, just about any Learjet would kick an Md-90 or 757's ass any day, even heavy. If you are light, forget about it, if you don't know what you are doing you better do a de-rated takeoff or you will have an altitude bust. I took a fairly light 25 from ground to FL190 in just under 3 minutes and that particular one is the pig of the fleet and the VSI was still pegged almost all the way up!

Of course they will. Why not throw an F-18 into the mix as well. But I think EA772LR was talking about MD-90's & 757's.
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:08 pm



Quoting 2H4 (Reply 16):
At what altitude did you start levelling off?

By the time you get to 1000' to go you have to really start running the pitch down some and pull the power back otherwise you will balloon it through, the other tricky part on that one in particular was the transition altitude and changing the altimeter to 29.92" out of 17,000'. You also have to be smooth about it all! Any monkey could go out and jerk an airplane through the sky!
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acNDTTech
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:43 am

The best "feeling" take off for me used to be on the L-1011's. Man, I sure do miss those planes.
 
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:21 am



Quoting EA772LR (Thread starter):
I have yet to ride on an MD-90, but my best chance is DL.

I highly recommend it.

But I think the 757 has the CAPABILITY to climb stronger. Now, it's rarely used.

Quoting Atlturbine (Reply 15):
As a nonrev on Delta I have been denied boarding on MD-88's in the western US during the summer months due to weight restrictions on numerous occasions.

The MD-80 has weaker hot and high performance than several other aircraft, including the MD-90 and 757. The -80 had respectable hot and high performance when it was new, but since then, several aircraft have come into existence that are better.
The 757 has a lot of wing and power, but will still overtemp the engines coming out of Salt Lake in the summer for a 4 hour flight to Anchorage. Don't ask how I know.
The MD-80 is limited by it's JT8's.
The MD-90 is limited (rarely) by the fact that it has the same wing as the -80, yet more fuselage and much heavier engines.
 
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:31 pm



Quoting AcNDTTech (Reply 19):
The best "feeling" take off for me used to be on the L-1011's. Man, I sure do miss those planes.

I am inclined to agree - took a very light one LGW-AGP back in the day and it was quite breathtaking.

Done an even emptier 1-2-GO MD83 in a Monsoon from Surat-Thani-DMK - was obviously a full-power takeoff and the steepest climb i've ever been on - literally 12 seconds from brakes off to the thud of the gear doors opening.

I like the feeling of raw power on the 757 - will miss them when they are gone.

Not tried the MD90 yet.
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:00 am



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 20):
The 757 has a lot of wing and power, but will still overtemp the engines coming out of Salt Lake in the summer for a 4 hour flight to Anchorage. Don't ask how I know.

So did the 757 leave with empty seats? Was that recent? I realize that early on the Pratt engines were plagued with temp problems but I thought those had been resolved through several mods & upgrades @ least thats what we were taught in 57 school.
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:43 pm



Quoting LAX25R (Reply 4):
Two things are very noticable on the MD90 from a passenger standpoint. The first is how quiet it is. The engines are incredibly quiet even if you are sitting towards the rear. I don't know if it's because the engines are so quiet or what, but it seems that you can hear a lot more runway noise--like the nosewheel going over the lights in the runway.

With an MD-90 you can stand at the nose with the engines running and have a normal conversation. Taking to someone around an MD-80 usually means yelling.
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:08 am



Quoting BAe146QT (Reply 8):
Incidentally, the steepest climb I have ever experienced was a near-empty Virgin 747-400 in fog and freezing cold weather from Heathrow.

I'll never forget the day when a number of factors conspired to give me the most amazing T/O I've ever felt.

I was supposed to be flying a UA 772 from SFO to ORD (first 772 flight ever). But when I got to the gate, there was an equipment change. It was a 744. Only time I've ever been sad to see a 744 on the stand.

The winds were such that we used 19L for departure. There must have been 20 pax aboard this plane. The pilot spun up the engines to about half T/O thrust and then released the brakes. The plane acted like it had just been stung. I was aft of the wing, so all I heard was a lot of roaring and then about 20 seconds later the wings were doing that stretchy thing they do on the 744 and then we were up, fog off the wings and everything. Our initial climb was so steep that I was worried we might stall. The ground just fell away.

To date, I have never been in any other plane, not even a 757, that has shown me that sort of takeoff.
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XaraB
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:11 am



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):

I experienced just about the same in an SK 736 a couple of years ago from TRD to BGO. We were 6 passengers on board, and as the captain walked past the gate agent just before boarding and was told this, he smiled and said "This is going to be fun!". I didn't time us, but we must have reached our cruising altitude of FL380 (IIRC) in less than 15 minutes.

My best SK flight ever, as it was one of the few flights running as normal during a nation-wide strike, and the crew was bending over backwards to offer as much service as possible.
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DocLightning
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:31 pm

I still love sitting as far forward in an MD-80 or MD-90 as I can. Way up at the Y-class bulkhead you can barely hear the engines and so it feels like a giant, invisible hand is guiding you into the air.
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:40 am



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):
Any flight out of SNA rocks!

Amen!..though I may be slightly biased. Big grin

It's incredible to be in the pattern or on the ramp and watch the 752s and DL MD-90s take off, those things are like rockets. It's pretty funny though when you're on a flight with a load of "SNA-Newbies" and the captain neglects to inform everyone of the unusual take-off procedure...

Never seen more white knuckles and pale faces than I have during those take-offs!

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atct
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:08 pm

It is rarely done but a maximum performance takeoff on a 757 is a beautiful thing. I was working a COA 752 heading to EWR (from IAH) and he had some numbers issue with the runway and they had to perform a max performance take off. With roughly 160 pax and whatever bags/fuel, he was off the ground in roughly 3,000ft and passing through 3,000FT MSL at the runway end (12,000ft).

That being said, I have ridden many 75's and Md-90s as a former Delta Ramp Rat and would say that the Md-90 is definitely the quieter of the group (I have sat in the last row...much quieter than any wing area seat on the 75) but that the 75 if going short range and issues come up, will climb like a homesick angel. (not saying I prefer one to the other, they both are sweet aircraft)

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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:23 am



Quoting Atlturbine (Reply 22):
So did the 757 leave with empty seats? Was that recent?

I don't have access to PAX numbers. But I can tell you that it's a fairly common occurrence. Recent? Summers.
 
airxliban
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:40 am

Both have powerful takeoffs, but I prefer the 757-200s. You can't beat the hum of the RB211 at full power. That said, the MD-90 is incredibly stable and quiet at takeoff particularly if you're at the front of the aircraft. I've flown Saudi Arabian MD-90s several times - one of the most pleasant experiences was taking off from the short runway at Yanbu (an industrial village on the west coast of Saudi) heading to Jeddah just after a sandstorm. Near full power takeoff and I was sitting in 1A. Very smooth  Wink
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EA772LR
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:36 pm



Quoting ATCT (Reply 28):
the 75 if going short range and issues come up, will climb like a homesick angel.

What a great analogy!  rotfl 
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DeltaGuy
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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:59 pm



Quoting Njxc500 (Reply 5):
My guess is 5 seconds from brake release to airborn, and another five we were at 40 degrees nose up.......

Try an empty G550 at Rated power on a cold day- Vr comes awfly quick.

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 7):
MD90... hands down winner for short-haul flight.

I was waiting for AAR90 to chime in, good to see a loyal MadDog90 driver Big grin

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RE: 757 Vs. MD-90 For The Takeoff Crown?

Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:35 pm



Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 32):
I was waiting for AAR90 to chime in, good to see a loyal MadDog90 driver

It has been a long time since I had the pleasure of driving the 90.  frown  OTOH, it appears I may be the only one here who has actually flown the 737, 757 and MD90 on identical routes with near identical loads under near identical weather conditions and at each planes' maximum rated thrust setting. MD90 remains the clear winner with 757 not all that far behind. 738 is no slouch, but a definite third place. I have the "pleasure" of lying near empty 738's SNA-DFW for all of this month so we sort of get a feel for what it was like flying the MD90.... sort of.
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