6thfreedom
Topic Author
Posts: 2616
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:09 am

Minimum Crew Rests

Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:46 am

Any information out there on minimum crew rests?
Is there a difference between minimum crew rest for narrowbody operations as opposed to widebody?
Can an airline fly into a destination with 1 crew, give them 10 or 12 hours on the ground, then operate the same aircraft back to home base?

I'm interested in finding out what a minimum limitations are, especially in the asia/pacific region.
 
nws2002
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:04 pm

RE: Minimum Crew Rests

Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:03 am



Quoting 6thfreedom (Thread starter):
Any information out there on minimum crew rests?

Look in FAR 121.480-493 for pilots and 121.467 for flight attendants. Those are the US regs.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Thread starter):
Is there a difference between minimum crew rest for narrowbody operations as opposed to widebody?

Not exactly, but widebody aircraft that do long-haul flights usually carry relief pilots, so it does change the duty and rest time regulations.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Thread starter):
Can an airline fly into a destination with 1 crew, give them 10 or 12 hours on the ground, then operate the same aircraft back to home base?

Sure, and most of the crews hate it. Depending on rest cycles though it isn't necessarily the safest thing to do.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Minimum Crew Rests

Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:10 am



Quoting 6thfreedom (Thread starter):
Any information out there on minimum crew rests?

Do you mean between trips? On duty crew rest during flight? On layover minimum crew rest?

Quoting 6thfreedom (Thread starter):
Is there a difference between minimum crew rest for narrowbody operations as opposed to widebody?

No. Crew rest is determined by on duty time (how many hours on duty). Duty time starts at the time we check-in for the trip till we block in at the destination.

Quoting 6thfreedom (Thread starter):
Can an airline fly into a destination with 1 crew, give them 10 or 12 hours on the ground, then operate the same aircraft back to home base?

Yes. Look at most US carriers flights to GRU. We have these types of trips to GRU (from EWR) and EZE (from IAH).

For flight attendants at CO, minimum crew rest away from base is 9 hours (block to block - that means from when the plane blocks in (brakes set/door open) to block out (door closed/brakes released). This can go down to 8:45. These times are regardless of widebody or narrowbody.

If we are scheduled (key word) for a duty day of 14:01 to 16:00 (more now with BOM/DEL/HKG flying) minimum is 12 hours.

Keep in mind these are flight attendant rest times.
You can't cure stupid
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Minimum Crew Rests

Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:14 am



Quoting Nws2002 (Reply 1):
Sure, and most of the crews hate it.

I don't know about hate, but they are highly productive and very senior (GRU/EZE). You get your flying in, over and done.
You can't cure stupid
 
nws2002
Posts: 717
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:04 pm

RE: Minimum Crew Rests

Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:27 am



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 3):
I don't know about hate, but they are highly productive and very senior (GRU/EZE). You get your flying in, over and done.

Yeah, I was thinking more along the lines of the west coast turns. I can't even touch the GRU/EZE trips they go so senior.

Of course since I haven't been here 300 years yet I actually enjoy most of my layovers, so I don't want to get my flying over and done. Unless its a EWR-MIA-EWR trip, then I call in sick.
 
411A
Posts: 1788
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 10:34 am

RE: Minimum Crew Rests

Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:40 pm



Quoting Nws2002 (Reply 4):
Unless its a EWR-MIA-EWR trip, then I call in sick.

Sadly, an all too familiar scenario by many junior pilots.
These same pilots knock on the HR door and ask for a job.
One is offered, and accepted.
Then, later on, when perhaps undesirable flights come along, these same pilots are 'unavailable' for a variety of reasons.
The cure?
Send these malcontents a 'don't come Monday letter' and open up positions for those that actually do care about providing a reasonable days work for a days pay.

As for required crew rest...it is entirely up to the respective operator, its ops specs, the regulatory authority/counrty of registration or AOC requirements.
If some junior pilots don't like this scenario, they know where the HR exit door is...they will not be missed.
 
bwaflyer
Posts: 496
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:48 am

RE: Minimum Crew Rests

Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:52 pm

In the UK, as a GENERAL rule (there are many rules!), rest must be a minimum of 11 hours (in exceptional circumstances it can be reduced to 10 hours) or as long as the previous duty. A duty will start from when the crew check in at the crew centre, until (normally) 30 mins after chocks on. Normally there is an allowance of around an hour to travel to / from hotels, so we would require a minimum of 10 hours in the hotel (which starts once we are in our rooms), or as long as the previous duty less an hour. If for example I operate LHR-CAI-LHR, which is a duty of around 13.5 hours, I would need 13.5 hours between getting back to LHR, and checking in for my next flight. Some airlines have scheduling agreements which provide more generous rest, but these are the legal minimums. We can do what is called a split duty, where for example, we will operate the last flight of a day to an out station, and then take a short rest (maybe 6 hours), and the operate the first flight of the morning back to base, but this would be counted as just one duty, and the rest period would extend the total available duty period by 1/2 the rest period. For example, if we were able to do a 12 hour duty, and within that we were taking 6 hours rest in a hotel room, the duty could be extended by 6 x 0.5 = 3 hours, making a total of 15 hours. Again total allowable duties are a dark art, and are based on a huge number of factors, some of which are the time that the duty started (duties starting before 6am are shorter), how many sectors are being flown, how many early/late duties have been carried out before, how many time zones you're flying through and whether you have adjusted to local time. It gets even more confusing when the rest of the crew aren't operating the same trip as you, so you have to keep a very close eye on what hours you are working as ultimately the CAA hold you, not the company responsible for complying with flight time limitations.
 
zappbrannigan
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:41 am

RE: Minimum Crew Rests

Thu Oct 02, 2008 3:08 am

CAO 48 applies here in Australia. It's at http://www.casa.gov.au/rules/orders/4392.htm#part48 if you want to have a look.
 
airbuster
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:43 am

RE: Minimum Crew Rests

Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:51 am

at our carrier, it's minimum 8,5 hours rest but we can only operate the return flight and duty can then not exceed 4 hours.
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