a380900
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747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:27 pm

Looking at this picture got me wondering: are the horizontal and vertical stabilizers in the dreamlifter controlled electrically? A mechanical system seems difficult to implement with the opening in the back. Does anyone know. Is it fly by wire?


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YWG
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:28 pm



Quoting A380900 (Thread starter):
Is it fly by wire?

Yes it is.
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zeke
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 4:22 pm



Quoting YWG (Reply 1):
Yes it is.

News to me, when did the 747-400 become fly by wire ?
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Slcpilot
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:24 pm

I think it's fly by "steel" wire,,,,,

Cheers!

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474218
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:40 pm

The control cable (lots of wires wound together) runs are visable in the photo between the two sets of hydraulic lines. There are two (2) cables in the upper run and four (4) in the lower.
 
Viscount724
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:59 pm

These weren't fly-by-wire either.  Smile


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a380900
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:45 am

All right. I guess it is easier to do than I thought then. I'd rather stay away from these planes anyway... Thanks for the answers.

[Edited 2008-10-05 19:46:23]
 
474218
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:58 am



Quoting A380900 (Reply 6):
I guess it is easier to do than I thought then.

There are several different ways to accomplish it, such as quick disconnects that allow the cables to be reinstalled with the same tension, or springs in the cable runs that can stretch when the aft body is swing open and return to the proper tension when the tail is stowed.

If you notice in the Dreamlifter they use flexiable rubber hoses for the hydraulic lines.
 
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:23 pm



Quoting 474218 (Reply 4):
The control cable (lots of wires wound together) runs are visable in the photo between the two sets of hydraulic lines. There are two (2) cables in the upper run and four (4) in the lower.

Odd- there are normally 14 cables going through the aft bulkhead... ten in a row, and four bigger ones, IIRC.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:15 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 7):
There are several different ways to accomplish it, such as quick disconnects that allow the cables to be reinstalled with the same tension, or springs in the cable runs that can stretch when the aft body is swing open and return to the proper tension when the tail is stowed.

I think the former method would need ground checks prior to despatch.
regds
MEL
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SEPilot
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:35 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):

I think the former method would need ground checks prior to despatch.

Well, I don't think these were intended for quick turnarounds.....
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:58 pm



Quoting SEPilot (Reply 10):
Well, I don't think these were intended for quick turnarounds.....

Not about quick turn arounds,but rather man hrs spent on a task.
regds
MEL
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swiftski
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:24 pm



Quoting A380900 (Reply 6):
I'd rather stay away from these planes anyway...

Why's that?
 
SEPilot
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:43 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 11):

Not about quick turn arounds,but rather man hrs spent on a task.
regds

Understood. But my main point is that due to the specialized cargo that these birds fly requiring a few extra man hours per flight is by no means a deal breaker. The alternative, shipping by sea, would cost much more in terms of lost time that it is well worth it.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
dw747400
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:20 pm



Quoting SEPilot (Reply 13):
But my main point is that due to the specialized cargo that these birds fly requiring a few extra man hours per flight is by no means a deal breaker.

It may not be a deal breaker, but it certainly is important to cut down on man hours and turnaround time. I wish I could find the source, but Boeing engineers viewed getting the linkages on the 747LCF to work properly as a major achievement, and some manager quantified the amount of time and money saved by avoiding a Guppy-style flight control hookup. It was substantial.
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
SEPilot
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:34 am



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 14):

It may not be a deal breaker, but it certainly is important to cut down on man hours and turnaround time.

Quite true. Any gain in efficiency in any endeavor is always a plus.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
DL_Mech
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:44 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 7):
If you notice in the Dreamlifter they use flexiable rubber hoses for the hydraulic lines.

I think all of the rubber hoses are electrical conduits. The hydraulic lines are near the two center hinge points, possibly using some type of banjo connection.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
SEPilot
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:08 am



Quoting Dl_mech (Reply 16):
I think all of the rubber hoses are electrical conduits. The hydraulic lines are near the two center hinge points, possibly using some type of banjo connection.

Are you sure? Looking at the photo it certainly looks like the hydraulic lines are connected to the black hoses; certainly if I were designing it that's how I would do it. Flexible hydraulic hoses are hardly new; they've been used for about 100 years, and it is the easiest and most efficient way to transmit hydraulic force through a moving joint. Banjo connections make no sense; it is almost impossible to do without some leakage, which also raises the possibility of dirt entrance, which is the biggest danger. Also, all electrical wires are likely bundled together in one bundle; there is no need to separate them, as it is highly unlikely that there are either high voltage or high frequency lines that would need to be isolated.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
DL_Mech
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:17 pm



Quoting SEPilot (Reply 17):
Are you sure?

Take a look at what comes out of the hoses in the tail section. There are several "dips" in the wire bundles and there is also a electrical connector disconnect panel above the third red safety flag.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 17):
Banjo connections make no sense

Tell that to McDonnell Douglas.......Used on their landing gear.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 17):
Also, all electrical wires are likely bundled together in one bundle

Boeing separates wire bundles into several color coded groups. It is basically designed to keep wires powered by different sources separate. Each of the three autopilots have wiring running in separate bundles.
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
DL_Mech
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:39 pm

I'm gonna guess that the hydraulic lines are separated into two groups around the middle hinges. The upper group starts above the cylindrical duct in the main fuselage and is U-shaped at the upper middle hinge. The lower group appears to be an inverted U at the lower middle hinge. I don't know what the odd shaped white boxes ( that the hydraulic lines run through in the tail section) could be.

Now where's the APU pneumatic duct?
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
DL_Mech
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:01 pm



Quoting Dl_mech (Reply 19):
Now where's the APU pneumatic duct?

I hate quoting my own posts, but I think I have an answer.....No APU!


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HAWK21M
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:47 am



Quoting Dl_mech (Reply 20):
I hate quoting my own posts, but I think I have an answer.....No APU!

Thats true.
Any data on this aircraft systemwise type on the net?
regds
MEL.
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zeke
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:21 pm



Quoting Dl_mech (Reply 20):
I hate quoting my own posts, but I think I have an answer.....No APU!

I seem to recall that the APU was relocated to the forward cargo hold.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:28 am



Quoting Zeke (Reply 22):
I seem to recall that the APU was relocated to the forward cargo hold.

Any additional Info on this?
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: 747 Dreamlifter - Fly By Wire?

Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:29 pm



Quoting Zeke (Reply 22):
I seem to recall that the APU was relocated to the forward cargo hold.

What's the use of an APU when you need all that GSE (including that massive tail forklift) to handle the aircraft on the ground? It's not like a little power cart would complicate the logistics.

Not knowing the answer, I bet it doesn't have one at all.

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