CJAContinental
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Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:21 pm

I found an interesting page describing ten aviation disasters that stimulated the greatest advances and changes in aircraft safety to what it is today.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/air_space/4221138.html

However, I was surprised to see the absence of one aviation disaster in particular:

American Airlines flight 191 (DC-10-10), Chicago O'Hare, 1979.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_191

Although the accident was mainly attributed to engine maintenance, the initial cause of the crash, (the engine coming over the wing and damaging the leading edge) further exploited weaknesses in the design of the DC-10 at the time, that could have otherwise perhaps averted the disaster if the aircraft had these design aspects been different. These mainly concerned the redundancy and location of systems (in this case, hydraulic lines and redundancy of stall warning systems).

If I have interpreted sources correctly, the accident lead the NTSB to link management, maintenance and aircraft design to factors contributing to the crash.

The airworthiness directives issued by the FAA indicate the changes needed and introduced as a result of the accident.
http://lessons.air.mmac.faa.gov/l2/Am191/ads/

In my opinion, some of these AD's would have greatly affected future aircraft design, as well as general recommendations by the NTSB, and perhaps they have, and this is why I'm surprised it wasn't included.

So, would you agree that AA flight 191 significantly influenced changes in aviation safety? Also, which technical/technological advances resulting from disasters have constituted the greatest changes and impacts in aviation safety, and why? Are they included in the popular mechanics page (first link) or not (Do you agree with the list?)

Thoughts...

[Edited 2008-10-11 09:24:11]

[Edited 2008-10-11 09:25:16]
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UltimateDelta
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:48 pm

I know that AA 587 led to slightly adjusted takeoff procedures and increased distance between flights, and like AC 797, a fire involving a Pacific Western 732 also caused many airlines to install fire-resistant seats. So did the British Airtours fire.
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DocLightning
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:54 pm

The Concorde crash changed aviation. A lot.

If you count Challenger and Columbia as aviation accidents, those changed aviation a lot, too.
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:42 pm

The Tenerife 1977 crash changed a lot to ICAO ATC/pilot communication - very strict definition of vocabulary.
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MissedApproach
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:56 pm



Quoting CJAContinental (Thread starter):
I found an interesting page describing ten aviation disasters that stimulated the greatest advances and changes in aircraft safety to what it is today.

I find it more surprising that the Comet is not on the list. Not only was it the most exhaustive investigation of the period, it effectively allowed the US aviation industry to overtake Britain.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
If you count Challenger and Columbia as aviation accidents, those changed aviation a lot, too.

I can't agree. It was a huge problem for NASA & changed the way they ran missions, & was also fairly traumatic for the general public, but it had little effect on general or commercial aviation.
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WESTERN737800
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:17 pm

I was kinda surprised to not see the Air Florida 732 on the list. I remember watching the news as a little kid that night what a sad day.
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Viscount724
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:42 pm

Another crash that played a major role in improving safety was the Pan Am 707 crash in Maryland on approach to PHL in December 1963, where a lightning strike caused fuel vapors in empty fuel tanks to explode. That crash played an instrumental role in the FAA's decision to require the installation of static wicks on jet aircraft.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19631208-0
 
KELPkid
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:54 pm



Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 4):
I find it more surprising that the Comet is not on the list. Not only was it the most exhaustive investigation of the period, it effectively allowed the US aviation industry to overtake Britain.

It also permanently altered the science and art of accident investigations. This is probably the biggest mark that the Comet crashes left.

Quoting WESTERN737800 (Reply 5):
I was kinda surprised to not see the Air Florida 732 on the list. I remember watching the news as a little kid that night what a sad day.

 checkmark  This accident, more than any other, was probably the final nail in the coffin for the "Captain is God" mentality, and the beginning of airline training departments to embrace CRM. Air Florida 90 was a 100% preventable accident (a perfectly good airplane was flown into the Potomac river), and the First Officer's input being taken seriously (the CVR picks up the F/O saying that the engine instrument readings were all out of whack) could have lead to a takeoff abort before V1 .
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YWG
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:08 pm

That one between a general aviation piper and i think an Alaskan MD80 over LA is the reason TCAS exists today.
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jetstar
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:38 pm

The Lockheed Electra crashes in the 1960’s when the wings would separate from the fuselages in flight.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:46 pm



Quoting YWG (Reply 8):
That one between a general aviation piper and i think an Alaskan MD80 over LA is the reason TCAS exists today

I think you're referring to this one in 1986 involving an Aeromexico DC-9.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19860831-0
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:33 pm



Quoting CJAContinental (Thread starter):
However, I was surprised to see the absence of one aviation disaster in particular:

Yeah, there are plenty of influential crashes that have been omitted right back to the Fokker Tri-motors. These guys must have been space constricted and had to pick the best they could. It is also obvious they may not have been old enough to remember a lot of the ones they did report on or they might have chosen a few differently. Oh well, they tried.
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UltimateDelta
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:42 am

I think a PA 707 crash in Maryland in the '60s (These are all the details I remember) caused manufacturers to make their planes more resistant to weather, too. Oh and I just thought of another crash: BOAC Comet, Jan. 10, 1954: led to study of metal fatigue. Only just now did I realize how majorly important that one was, too!
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AAH732UAL
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:12 am

WN587 at BUR..........That pretty much implemented a new standard for stabilized approaches and FOQA (Flight Ops Quality Assurance) Alerts now being posted warning pilots of possible problems that could arise.

There was also a 727 crash at JNU in the late 70s that eventually lead AS to pioneer RNAV(RNP) procedures in the mid 90s which has since lead to a ton of new performance and/or RNAV-GPS based procedures. All of which was part of the baseline for the HAR (High Altitude Redesign) program that FAA has started to get better efficiency out of the NAS (National AirSpace).

Those are two that come to mind on the tec side of flying...........
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ba97
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:46 am

The list is a good list and is a valiant attempt to narrow the list to 10. I find it odd that there is not a list of international situations. The Comet I would submit is not changing aviation, if I interpret this article as changing aviation operations. I would say it altered the industry as a whole more than any. The Comet issue invented crash investigations and altered construction but I would say it did not change aviation ops.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:17 am



Quoting YWG (Reply 8):
That one between a general aviation piper and i think an Alaskan MD80 over LA is the reason TCAS exists today.

I think you mean PSA 727 over San Diego.
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DingDong
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:31 am



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 13):
WN587 at BUR..........That pretty much implemented a new standard for stabilized approaches

Hi, not sure I could quite agree with that assertion, mostly because prior to the overrun, the existing standard was already adequate: "Stabilized approach by 500 feet".

The flight crew in question wasn't stabilized by 500, so... proceeding with that particular approach showed some questionable ADM, as well as questionable CRM, and not to mention that of disregarding the employer's own SOP without a pretty compelling reason.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:50 am



Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 4):

I find it more surprising that the Comet is not on the list.

 checkmark 

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 15):
I think you mean PSA 727 over San Diego.

I think he may be referring to this one:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/air_space/4221138.html?page=6

I'm not sure what the article was using as the definition of a crash, but it obviously doesn't mention the 9/11 hijackings, which have probably changed air travel more than anything else in my life.
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PhilSquares
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:05 am



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 13):
WN587 at BUR..........That pretty much implemented a new standard for stabilized approaches and FOQA (Flight Ops Quality Assurance) Alerts now being posted warning pilots of possible problems that could arise.

I disagree. The FOQA and DFDR program had been long established prior to the BUR event. In fact, WN had a requirement in the FOM to be stabilised, on a visual approach, at 500' AGL. For as long as I can remember most carriers had that requirement. Some were 1000' if doing an instrument approach and 500' if visual, or a flat 1000' for all approaches.

Quoting CJAContinental (Thread starter):
So, would you agree that AA flight 191 significantly influenced changes in aviation safety?

Not really. What it did do was ensure the FAA provided increased oversight in maintenance procedures. AA was using an unauthorised procedure for engine removal.
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:59 pm



Quoting CJAContinental (Thread starter):
I found an interesting page describing ten aviation disasters that stimulated the greatest advances and changes in aircraft safety to what it is today.

Only now did I actually read the article. The 10 crashes all took place in the US or on planes that had just taken off from it. The rest of the world apparently wasn't that interesting.

Quoting Ba97 (Reply 14):
I find it odd that there is not a list of international situations.

Indeed. Especially the Tenerife crash had a big effect on operations.
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LHRBFSTrident
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:50 am

The British Airtours 737-200 fire at Manchester brought a whole host of new standards, at least for a/c covered by the UK's CAA -

frequency of boroscope inspections,
installation of floor-level exit path lighting,
increased aisle clearances between bulkheads,
increased pitch/deletion of pax seat at overwing exit rows,

plus highlighted the following issues in emergency situations:

the tendency for the 737 fwd svc door to jam when opened too quickly in automatic mode,
awareness of stopping the a/c into wind in the event of a fire

...and then the perennial argument over the provision of smokehoods for pax which was debated intensively immediately after that accident
 
stratosphere
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:39 am



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 18):
Not really. What it did do was ensure the FAA provided increased oversight in maintenance procedures. AA was using an unauthorised procedure for engine removal.

Not only that but they found out that dual stick shakers were an option and on AA 191 it was on the F/O's side and not on the capt's which was the side that lost the engine. A lot of things came together to make that crash happen which is why the NTSB does such a good job not the FAA which is a joke. The FAA only does something when a bunch of people die and the NTSB makes a recommendation.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:33 am



Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 20):
The British Airtours 737-200 fire at Manchester brought a whole host of new standards, at least for a/c covered by the UK's CAA -

Additionally, I believe there was a whole host of new fireproofing materials regulation. This crash was truly very important for fire safety.
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PhilSquares
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:06 am



Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 21):
on AA 191 it was on the F/O's side and not on the capt's which was the side that lost the engine.

Hmmm, think you might be confused. The stick shaker does not respond from the loss of an engine. The stick shaker is based on the AOA sensor and on AA191 it had nothing to do with the crash. The accident investigation of 191 did turn up an improper training procedure where the crews were instructed to fly at V2 in the case of an engine failure. It has been changed to V2+10.
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OPNLguy
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:59 pm



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 7):
This accident, more than any other, was probably the final nail in the coffin for the "Captain is God" mentality

 spit   spit   spit   spit   spit 

Hardly. It's alive and well---just ask any dispatcher at any airline. Not every PIC, of course, but every outfit has its 2% group...

Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 13):
WN587 at BUR..........

I presume that you meant SWA1455, N668SW...
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20000305-0
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ptrjong
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:16 pm



Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
The Concorde crash changed aviation. A lot.

How so? I don't think it changed aviation one bit.

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AAH732UAL
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:18 pm



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 24):

Darn google  duck 
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OPNLguy
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:38 pm



Quoting AAH732UAL (Reply 26):
Darn google

The only 587 that comes to mind was AAL587, the A300 that departed JFK in Nov. 2001 and lost the vertical stabilizer and rudder shortly after takeoff.

Looks like Google had a rough weekend...  Wink
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access-air
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:46 pm



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 9):
The Lockheed Electra crashes in the 1960’s when the wings would separate from the fuselages in flight

Yes, this was because Lockheed had not put enuff support structure in the engine mounts to dampen the engines from being able to slip into whirl mode from the oscillatiing props being bounced around in turbulent air. Once the whirl mode started the oscillations, it was just a matter of seconds until the movements fatigued the mounts and wings right off the aircraft. Subsequent beefing up of the engine mounts completely elimintaed this problem. A Must read is the book entitled: The Electra Story. Its a very interesting story about this very problem and the discovery and solution.

Braniff lost an Electra to this phenomenon over Buffalo City, Texas and Norrthwest an Electra over Tell City, Indiana.

Also, I think we have all forgotten the restriction on the 40 degrees flap setting on the Boeing 727 that contributed to pilots flying the plane into the ground because the decent rate was so great.
Example: UA lost an 727-022 in Lake Michigan because of this. I think it was either All Nippon or JAL that lost a 727-100 in this same fashion.. I think AA also lost a 727-023 in CVG to this too before they figured out what the problem was...

Lets not forget the Air Canada DC9-30 that burned up on the ramp at CVG because of no smoke detector in the LAV that could have alerted the crew to a fire.


How about all the lessons we have learned about Inflight Icing from the ATI Italy ATR-42 Lake Como crash as well as the American Eagle ATR-72 that succombed to Ice On Halloween 1994 over Roselawn, Indiana???? I think that other ice related accidents also thrust the icing issue unto the forefront of airline oeprations..

Oh wait, how about the conclusion that due to F/O's not speaking up to their Captains could have been major factors in not only the KLM/Pam Am crash On Tenerifie, but also the Air Florida 737 that went intot he Patomac River in 1982?. Better communication between flight crew could have averted disaster.

Not sure if this helped any, but ground radar at airports to know where planes are at such as the LAX incident involving the USAir 737 and the Skywest Metro as well as the NW DC9 and 727 collision at DTW. Or was this kind of thing already in place?

Access-Air

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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:03 pm



Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 25):

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
The Concorde crash changed aviation. A lot.

How so? I don't think it changed aviation one bit.

Ptrjong is correct.

It had long since been established that there wouldn't be a successor to Concorde any time soon, so the crash just fast-forwarded the inevitable: the eventual absence of supersonic passenger transportation.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Pihero
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:17 pm



Quoting Ba97 (Reply 14):
The Comet issue invented crash investigations and altered construction but I would say it did not change aviation ops.

On the contrary. The Comet accidents ad incidents also are the origin of performance (especally take-off) regulations.
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57AZ
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:38 pm

The most important civil aviation crash of modern times was the Grand Canyon mid-air collision involving the United Airlines DC-6 and Trans World Airlines 1049. That forced civilian air traffic control into the modern age. Prior to that, the use of radar for civilian air traffic control was very rare. There were arguments against allowing use of radar for civilian aviation purposes-cost and military needs. The collision ended all of that debate.
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EMBQA
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:23 pm

I can't think of one major accident in the last 30 years that did not change the way we operate
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KELPkid
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:28 pm



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 24):
Hardly. It's alive and well---just ask any dispatcher at any airline. Not every PIC, of course, but every outfit has its 2% group...

Maybe yes, maybe no. The biggie, though, is that the training department teaches captains and first officers (even flight engineers, for the few of those still around  Wink ) to work together on decision making, and that the captain, while they might be the ultimate authority for the safe outcome of the flight, isn't infallible when it comes to matters of safety, and that the input of other crew members is valuable. Of course, it doesn't address personnel matters beyond the cockpit Big grin (and even I, working in the IT field, deal with network users and abusers on a daily basis who have the "God" mentality...  Yeah sure , especially when their title includes "president of" or "vice president of").
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wingscrubber
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:16 pm

The comet's most significant contribution to aviation was the discovery of the effect of stressed-skin pressurisation on METAL FATIGUE.

How can anybody say that the comet had no influence on aviation when every single pressurised jetliner you fly in today shows it's influence? They will have small oval windows - the reason they're so small and oval in shape is due to lessons learned from, and to it's detriment, the worlds first jet-liner.

For the ignorant among us, the first comets had large square windows like any aircraft of the day, but they accelerated metal fatigue at the corners eventually leading to rupture and loss of the fuselage. The people who died on those first flights were pioneers in my opinion.

And as for Concorde, no effect on aviation? I world say it was two world firsts, obviously, the worlds first supersonic jetliner in service, and also, the first aircraft to cause a regression in aerospace technology. The day concorde left service, the world of aviation took a step in the wrong direction.
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ba97
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:18 pm

Reading the great information, I see how dependingon the lens, a crash could be viewed as sigfnificant or not. Would a better split be crashes that changed ops and crashes that changed engineering/design. Some of the crashes listed and discussed, to me had important operational impact - i.e. how the plane was flown. Compared to designing something on an airplane with universal impact.
there is economy class, business class, first class...then Concorde..pure class
 
747400sp
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:54 am

If Pan Am flight 103 do not changed aviation what did! We have stronger security laws now, if you not flying with a plane, your bags can not stay on that plane.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:16 am



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 23):
Hmmm, think you might be confused. The stick shaker does not respond from the loss of an engine. The stick shaker is based on the AOA sensor and on AA191 it had nothing to do with the crash. The accident investigation of 191 did turn up an improper training procedure where the crews were instructed to fly at V2 in the case of an engine failure. It has been changed to V2+10.

Phil I was referring to the the fact that when the engine seperated from the wing it tore out the hydraulic lines and the leading edge slats retracted on that side which caused that side to stall while the right wing continued to fly. Had the crew known they were in a stall situation they MAY have been able to save it again I say maybe. It was not the loss of the engine that caused that crash it was the wing stall and rollover at low altitude that did.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:36 am



Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 23):
Hmmm, think you might be confused. The stick shaker does not respond from the loss of an engine. The stick shaker is based on the AOA sensor and on AA191 it had nothing to do with the crash. The accident investigation of 191 did turn up an improper training procedure where the crews were instructed to fly at V2 in the case of an engine failure. It has been changed to V2+10.

In fact after the AA191 crash it was mandated that all commercial aircraft come equipped with DUAL stick shakers.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:52 am



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
Another crash that played a major role in improving safety was the Pan Am 707 crash in Maryland on approach to PHL in December 1963, where a lightning strike caused fuel vapors in empty fuel tanks to explode. That crash played an instrumental role in the FAA's decision to require the installation of static wicks on jet aircraft.

How does that work? Static discharger wicks are for just that...dissipate static. They don't do any thing for dissipating lightning currents.

Quoting Wingscrubber (Reply 34):

And as for Concorde, no effect on aviation? I world say it was two world firsts, obviously, the worlds first supersonic jetliner in service, and also, the first aircraft to cause a regression in aerospace technology. The day concorde left service, the world of aviation took a step in the wrong direction.

Speed isn't a technology. There were faster aircraft that Concorde before Concorde entered service and there were faster ones after. Concorde didn't have any technology that we didn't have flying around on other airplanes when it left service.

Tom.
 
luv2cattlecall
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:18 am



Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 4):

I find it more surprising that the Comet is not on the list. Not only was it the most exhaustive investigation of the period, it effectively allowed the US aviation industry to overtake Britain.

Have you seen the National Geographic episode about the Coment incidents? Interesting to see how they went about troubleshooting - one of the big clues was actually from the pathologist, who examined lung tissue from victims. They also built a giant tank of water to put the aircraft through cycles until the point of failure.

Quoting WESTERN737800 (Reply 5):
I was kinda surprised to not see the Air Florida 732 on the list. I remember watching the news as a little kid that night what a sad day.

Didn't Howard Stern call Air Florida the next day and ask if the 14th st. bridge was a permanent stop?
.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:43 am



Quoting Wingscrubber (Reply 34):
How can anybody say that the comet had no influence on aviation



Quoting Wingscrubber (Reply 34):
And as for Concorde, no effect on aviation?

It can be argued that Concorde is a mere footnote in aviation history, unlike the Comet.
The thread, though, is not about the influence of aircraft designs but of aircraft crashes.

Peter
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
YWG747
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:37 am

To put it simply every aviation crash changes the industry as a whole.
There is almost always something that comes out of a crash that changes things for everyone else.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:51 pm



Quoting YWG747 (Reply 42):
To put it simply every aviation crash changes the industry as a whole.
There is almost always something that comes out of a crash that changes things for everyone else.

I agree completely. Trying to come up with a list (and especially one that may be of a limited quantity) of accidents that changed aviation lends it self to subjectivity.
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Aaron747
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:05 pm



Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 3):
The Tenerife 1977 crash changed a lot to ICAO ATC/pilot communication - very strict definition of vocabulary.

I don't know how much it actually changed outside what happens within western Europe. Listen to Japanese ATC and there's still plenty of non-English on frequency, even within terminal radar jurisdiction. Not to mention all the non-standard phraseology used by certain American crews when they come sauntering in from GUM or DTW with "hello Nagoya Tower" and "we're, ah, just coming up on WILBA for runway 36".

I'm sure Japan is not an isolated case - by all accounts, there are plenty of spots around the world where speaking out of the ICAO phrasebook is rarely the norm over the radio.
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:04 am

Ptrjong, TsdCanuck, the title of the thread is 'Crashes that changed aviation', the sole Concorde crash resulted in development of new safer tyres and kevlar fuel tank armour. Concorde was the worlds fastest civil airliner and so it was at the pinnacle of civil aviation. There have been faster aircraft, and still are, but they're all military; I believe that moving people is more progressive than moving bombs and missiles, or spying.
I think perhaps you both need to read my first post again and think about it...
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ptrjong
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:00 am



Quoting Wingscrubber (Reply 45):
Concorde crash resulted in development of new safer tyres and kevlar fuel tank armour.

OK, that's a good point if these were actually implemented.

The Concorde crash didn't change the speed we travel with, though. Well, it changed it for a select few on a few flights only.

Peter
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tdscanuck
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:47 am



Quoting Wingscrubber (Reply 45):
Ptrjong, TsdCanuck, the title of the thread is 'Crashes that changed aviation', the sole Concorde crash resulted in development of new safer tyres and kevlar fuel tank armour.

True, but you also said:

Quoting Wingscrubber (Reply 34):
the first aircraft to cause a regression in aerospace technology

That's what I was referring to.

Quoting Wingscrubber (Reply 45):
I think perhaps you both need to read my first post again and think about it...

Respectfully, I think perhaps you need to read what part of your post I was responding to and think about it...

Tom.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:16 am



Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 46):
Quoting Wingscrubber (Reply 45):
Concorde crash resulted in development of new safer tyres and kevlar fuel tank armour.

OK, that's a good point if these were actually implemented.

I gather these were strictly fror Concorde itself. That's simply a fix, not changing aviation.

Peter
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RE: Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation.

Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:35 am



Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 4):
I find it more surprising that the Comet is not on the list. Not only was it the most exhaustive investigation of the period, it effectively allowed the US aviation industry to overtake Britain.

That omission makes the rest a joke.

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 19):
Only now did I actually read the article. The 10 crashes all took place in the US or on planes that had just taken off from it. The rest of the world apparently wasn't that interesting.

Tenerife - did not occur here syndrome. Sheesh.

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