Virginblue4
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Can Passenger And Cargo Airlines Run Together?

Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:14 pm

Hi A.netters,

I was just have a couple of questions to ask about cargo airlines which im hoping you can answer. First of all, which is usally more profitable, cargo or passenger airlines? Lastly, is it possible to run a VERY large cargo airline (eg. the size of FedEx or UPS) and also run a short and long haul airline (eg. the size of BA)? Or a large cargo company and low cost airline (eg. Easyjet, Ryanair or Flybe)? Thanks for your help!

Jordan
The amazing tale of flight.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Can Passenger And Cargo Airlines Run Together?

Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:14 am



Quoting Virginblue4 (Thread starter):
First of all, which is usally more profitable, cargo or passenger airlines

Speaking from Experience Def a Cargo Airline is cheaper to run & usually ends up in profits unlike most Pax airlines.
cargo costs never drop,Delays never have cargo complaining & need for hotel accomodation.
"most" cargo aircraft are older aircraft,there are exceptions def,but cost of older aircraft are cheaper thru leased & purchase.
regds
MEL
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iairallie
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RE: Can Passenger And Cargo Airlines Run Together?

Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:32 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 1):
cargo costs never drop,

Debatable as that statement is...operational costs can rise, and potentially rise faster than revenues.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 1):
Delays never have cargo complaining

Though they may have customers complaining. Delays are hugely expensive for cargo companies as many of the items delivered by air are time sensitive and/or perishable.

I work for a company that has charter cargo and passenger operations. It is not uncommon to have both. I believe UPS at one time did some passenger operations (probably charter).

Profit potential for the different sorts of operations varies given the economic environment. Sometimes one sector is stronger than the other.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Can Passenger And Cargo Airlines Run Together?

Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:23 am

In terms Cargo not complaining.I was referring to On board Pax tantarums & Hotel accomodations in case of delays which add to expediture.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Can Passenger And Cargo Airlines Run Together?

Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:20 pm

While those things are true, it's a little more than just a hotel room or other compensation. Fedex considered it at one time years ago. They were going to config 727s for pax during the day and back to cargo at night. (Obviously this was way before all of the dayturns here at Fedex now) What it boiled down to was just the fact that there wasn't enough money to be made to justify the operation. When you consider that a freighter can pack cargo in up to the ceiling and bulk out or max out in wgt where in a pax config you're limited to really a very small amount of space. Then you still have to FAs, food, liquor, etc. Fedex scrapped the idea. We were a little disappointed then but looking back at it now that the cargo ops is a 24 hr/day deal is was a smart move.

As far as "older" jets that's true to some extent as well but Fedex spends lots of dollars continuing to upgrade the jets constantly. In the MD-11 that I fly we have, in the last 2 or 3 years, gotten SatCom, CPDLC/ADS, RAAS, EFB and we're gearing up now for LCD HUDs with EFV (Enhanced Flight Vision (infrared). Also the MD-10 conversion (good or bad idea). We have only 9 DC-10s still flying, I believe and the 777 freighter is coming.
 
Virginblue4
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RE: Can Passenger And Cargo Airlines Run Together?

Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:33 pm

Thanks everyone for the info! What about pasenger and cargo airlines running together?

Thanks

Jordan
The amazing tale of flight.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Can Passenger And Cargo Airlines Run Together?

Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:29 am



Quoting Virginblue4 (Reply 5):
What about pasenger and cargo airlines running together?

There are plenty of airlines with both substantial cargo and passenger operations. For example Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Japan Airlines and KLM. So it is not impossible. I should be noted, though, that the cargo division and the pax division are probably separated administratively to some extent.

You also have lots of cargo flying in the holds of passenger airliners.
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frmrCapCadet
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RE: Can Passenger And Cargo Airlines Run Together?

Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:14 am

A favorite flight: EVA airs 747, about 200 passengers up front, cargo in back and below. But no longer.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Can Passenger And Cargo Airlines Run Together?

Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:20 am



Quoting Virginblue4 (Reply 5):

Thanks everyone for the info! What about pasenger and cargo airlines running together?

Out here AI does that.....
A310F,B732SF & B744,A310,B772LR,B773ER pax.

9W has a plan to get the B737-700C in their fleet in future for cargo.

regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
rampkontroler
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RE: Can Passenger And Cargo Airlines Run Together?

Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:29 pm



Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 2):
I work for a company that has charter cargo and passenger operations. It is not uncommon to have both. I believe UPS at one time did some passenger operations (probably charter).

Yes they did, they used a couple 727's in "quick change" (QC) configuration, and it looked very strange to see a UPS 727aircraft parked at a passenger air bridge!:

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KELPkid
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RE: Can Passenger And Cargo Airlines Run Together?

Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:32 pm



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
There are plenty of airlines with both substantial cargo and passenger operations. For example Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Japan Airlines and KLM. So it is not impossible. I should be noted, though, that the cargo division and the pax division are probably separated administratively to some extent.

Does KLM still fly 747-400 Combis? Man, I wish some modern operator would order more combi's (although I understand that the FAA has made the certification of a combi model significantly more expensive, as the passenger/cargo bulkhead must now be able to protect against cargo shifting into the passenger compartment during a crash...
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Starlionblue
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RE: Can Passenger And Cargo Airlines Run Together?

Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:55 pm



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 10):

Man, I wish some modern operator would order more combi's (although I understand that the FAA has made the certification of a combi model significantly more expensive, as the passenger/cargo bulkhead must now be able to protect against cargo shifting into the passenger compartment during a crash...

Quite. I guess a 380 combi could work, with the main deck as cargo.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Can Passenger And Cargo Airlines Run Together?

Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:12 am



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 10):
Does KLM still fly 747-400 Combis? Man, I wish some modern operator would order more combi's (although I understand that the FAA has made the certification of a combi model significantly more expensive, as the passenger/cargo bulkhead must now be able to protect against cargo shifting into the passenger compartment during a crash...

The B743 & the B732C had the Pax seated forward & aft in each type respectively.The 9G bulkhead is critical.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)

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