adam42185
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:18 am

Cirrus Vision SF50 Cockpit Question

Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:05 pm



http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled/Cirrus-Vision-SF50/1506953/M/

I noticed, when looking at this picture, that all of the instruments are electronic in the SF50 cockpit. What happens in the event of a power failure? Are there any back up systems in place or am I not seeing the "old school" instruments for an emergency hidden away somewhere....?

I am not sure how to post images in the text yet so I tried and also supplied a link.
 
rwessel
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RE: Cirrus Vision SF50 Cockpit Question

Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:05 pm

Many jets have electronic standby/backup instrumentation. Usually a small LCD screen with most of the required info on it. On this 773, it's just to the right of the pilot's pair of big displays, and just above the left comm panel.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jeff Gilbert - JGPhotographics



These usually have their own data sources (air probes, gyros, etc.) as well as completely independent power (enough battery to meet whatever time requirements there are).

While I have no idea what they did on the DF50, it may be that there's enough redundancy in the displays, along with enough battery, to leave the function on one of the main panels, or they might have be using one of the small displays along the bottom. It's also possible that they have a standby instrument package that just reuses one of the displays when needed (remember that the displays themselves are little more than monitors, switching one of them to the standby instrument box and standby power would be pretty trivial).
 
divemaster08
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RE: Cirrus Vision SF50 Cockpit Question

Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:30 pm

Well i have to say that if you have a power failure, what happens then! I know that maybe on the 777s the RAM Turbine may be just big powerful enough to supply basic power to a monitor but i would doubt that the Cirrus will have it.

If all else fails i guess tho you can just yank the parachute and float "softly" down.

I have to say tho that the cockpit looks too cool!
Reminds me of what it might like be to fly the Starship Enterprise!
My dream, is to fly, over the rainbow, so high!
 
KELPkid
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RE: Cirrus Vision SF50 Cockpit Question

Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:37 pm

There are battery backups within the instruments (PFD's in this case) themselves, and these batteries have to be inspected and replaced at regular intervals. The batteries hold enough juice to get you down safely in the event of an electrical failure.

The manufacturers have to prove that the statistical probability of everything going completely kaput (black screens) is pretty low on these birds...  Wink

I wonder if it would be possible to write a screen saver routine for a PFD that says "Game over, insert coin"  devil  (that's the computer nerd in me talking!)
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
ArmitageShanks
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RE: Cirrus Vision SF50 Cockpit Question

Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:20 am

I don't know about yall but that is the ugliest and most boring flight deck I've ever seen.
 
ElpinDAB
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RE: Cirrus Vision SF50 Cockpit Question

Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:05 am

While I have to back up the whole batteries argument because it's true, I still must say that I don't think that this will be the exact look for the new Cirrus jet's cockpit. I guess i'll be pretty speechless if it is, but let it be that way...they are really one manufacturer that is realistically pushing for a workable flying car, and so be it...

But this new SF50 cockpit looks a bit too conceptual to me...if this is really not concept, and really the look of the new Cirrus jet, then, like I said, so be it. But, I Really think that something like the G1000 will be placed into this interface, and it could really fit. in fact, it would be awesome! For now, the G1000 provides the most connected interface that a pilot could have. Real-time XM nexrad base reflectivity updates, XM radio, and basically an EFB in the way of real-time airport diagrams and instrument approaches! What more could be said...Piloting still requires more skill than a car-driver could possibly have, and the G1000 makes this as simple as possible.

BTW, to answer your original Q, yes, the G1000 has a means of battery back-up. It has an emergency battery that will power the items on the emergency battery bus, which include the PFD, and all required avionics, for up to a certain time, but I forget how much now... It's adequate for finding a suitable airport under instrument conditions, in most cases though, unless you are trying to land after crossing an expansive amount of ocean or mountainous terrain in a single engine aircraft though.

Update:

Here's the cockpit in question:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jonathan Morgan



[Edited 2009-04-03 00:11:48]
 
onetogo
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Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:40 pm

RE: Cirrus Vision SF50 Cockpit Question

Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:52 pm



Quoting ElpinDAB (Reply 5):
But this new SF50 cockpit looks a bit too conceptual to me

Yeah.. Looks like a mockup to me. Seems like the screens are just plastic. Anyone else?
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Cirrus Vision SF50 Cockpit Question

Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:49 pm



Quoting ArmitageShanks (Reply 4):
I don't know about yall but that is the ugliest and most boring flight deck I've ever seen.

It is, but mock ups tend to be boring.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 3):
I wonder if it would be possible to write a screen saver routine for a PFD that says "Game over, insert coin"

If I could only find that picture of a MCDU saying that, I know its somewhere in my computer....

Quoting Onetogo (Reply 6):
Yeah.. Looks like a mockup to me. Seems like the screens are just plastic. Anyone else?

It's just Cirrus's display model for use in airshows.

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/nnumsql.asp?NNumbertxt=282CJ

Quoting ElpinDAB (Reply 5):
But, I Really think that something like the G1000 will be placed into this interface,

Me thinks they're going to use the Cirrus (Garmin) Perspective, the uber fancy version of the G1000. The screen size looks about right, the perspective is slightly larger than the standard G1000.

http://cirrusaircraft.com/perspective/

Quoting ElpinDAB (Reply 5):
but I forget how much now...

It's 30mins in the C172, I'd assume it would be the same for most other G1000 installations.
 
Mir
Posts: 19093
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Cirrus Vision SF50 Cockpit Question

Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:43 pm



Quoting Onetogo (Reply 6):
Looks like a mockup to me. Seems like the screens are just plastic. Anyone else?

If this were the real thing, there would be a lot more labels and placards everywhere. Definitely a mockup.

I like the design, though. But I doubt that those three screens along the bottom will be there in the production version. I'd bet one will be replaced with the standby instruments, another with a keypad, and the third with maybe the climate control and pressurization system.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Cirrus Vision SF50 Cockpit Question

Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:15 am



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 7):
It's 30mins in the C172, I'd assume it would be the same for most other G1000 installations.

I'm not sure that it is 30 minutes in every aircraft. Thers is some funny things about that backup battery in the C172S Nav III. While, logically, you'd think it is a Garmin provided battery, it is not. Its a Cessna supplied battery, and thus, I would assume each manufacture can make there own call on what size battery to use. I know that the battery Cessna had been using caused some issues, because the original manufacture closed up shop, and they had to find someone to step in and build the same battery, while conforming with what had been previously approved.

I'd imagine the SF50 (if it's ever built) will have something either like what the SR22 has in it, or maybe Cirrus will do what Embraer did with the Phenom 100, make a system that is based off the G1000, but has some different functions included in it.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Cirrus Vision SF50 Cockpit Question

Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:52 am



Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 9):
While, logically, you'd think it is a Garmin provided battery, it is not.

I'm aware of that. I'm trying to remember the brand of the battery as I've seen it during the checks on our planes while under MX. I want to say Concorde or one of the other major aviation battery brands but I'm not sure.

Interesting you mention problems though. I'm not aware of any of our NAVIIIs ever having any battery issues. I wonder if that only happened to the early NAVIII models. Ours are all 2007 built.
 
DescendVia
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Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:26 am

RE: Cirrus Vision SF50 Cockpit Question

Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:06 am



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 7):
It's 30mins in the C172, I'd assume it would be the same for most other G1000 installations

Remember the POH says 30 minutes but don't bank on it.

Its just like the fuel gauges on the G1000s, they say don't take them as gospel till they are blinking red. Actually I had both blinking well into the red one flight and the next morning a line guy dipped the tanks and found either 15 gal. in each tank or 16 total, I can't remember. I want to say 15 in each tank but I can't remember since someone said it to me in passing.
 
Fly2HMO
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Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Cirrus Vision SF50 Cockpit Question

Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:17 am



Quoting DescendVia (Reply 11):
Its just like the fuel gauges on the G1000s, they say don't take them as gospel till they are blinking red.

Oh I know those things are so unreliable. I get random blinking red x's all the time. Usually fixed by flipping the master on/off.

Versatile yet quirky things these G1000s can be...  cheeky 
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 2153
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: Cirrus Vision SF50 Cockpit Question

Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:50 am



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 10):

Interesting you mention problems though. I'm not aware of any of our NAVIIIs ever having any battery issues. I wonder if that only happened to the early NAVIII models. Ours are all 2007 built.

The only real standby battery issue I know of is if you just plain use it too much before start up. I'm not aware of the battery failing while in flight, just not charging IIRC. Plus, its not a required item for any type of flight, so I guess technically you don't need it.

I just knew of a guy who was having trouble replacing the part, when it stopped working.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands

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