GoDIA
Topic Author
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US A321 Engines

Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:48 pm

I've read that east US A321 use CFM engines, but the newer deliveries and the west US 321s have IAE engines. Will US standardize on one or the other or is this another example of "two airlines for the price of one?"
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bkircher
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RE: US A321 Engines

Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:34 pm

All further Airbus A320 family deliveries will have IAE engines.
 
KELPkid
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RE: US A321 Engines

Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:43 pm



Quoting Bkircher (Reply 1):
All further Airbus A320 family deliveries will have IAE engines.

That must really tick off GE, who (along with a certain aiframe manufacturer) helped provide financing in place for the HP/US merger...  Wink IIRC, at the time, they made a big deal about how it would provide untold billions in future GE and CFM engine orders.
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GoDIA
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RE: US A321 Engines

Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:40 pm

I guess that US has its reasons for the engine switch. I would assume that the earlier aircraft (delivered with the CFMs) will be retained, but NOT be re-engined since that would cost a boatload of money! If I'm wrong, I'm SURE someone on A-net will enlighten me.
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KELPkid
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RE: US A321 Engines

Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:38 pm



Quoting GoDIA (Reply 3):
guess that US has its reasons for the engine switch

My guess would be the fact that the IAE V2500 is the superior "Hot and High" engine, and now that US West is calling the shots, well, they kind of need the best performance possible out west in the summertime...  Wink I wonder if CFM vs IAE makes a big enough difference to avoid, say, a weight restricted departure from DEN or ABQ in the summer on a really hot day.

Quoting GoDIA (Reply 3):
but NOT be re-engined since that would cost a boatload of money

Definitely not. You just don't hear about re-engine programs on mainline airliners anymore, the last big successful one's I'm aware of are the DC-8 73's and UPS'es RR Tays in the 727's.
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LASoctoberB6
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RE: US A321 Engines

Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:44 pm



Quoting GoDIA (Thread starter):
west US 321s have IAE engines.

Since when did HP get A321s?
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HAWK21M
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RE: US A321 Engines

Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:46 pm

This is exactly the opposite of what occured at IC....Now AI.
V2500 were earlier used & later A319/20/21s were CFM56 equipped.
regds
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KELPkid
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RE: US A321 Engines

Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:31 pm



Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 5):
Since when did HP get A321s?

Since merging with US, and the operation is basically HP now (they even use the "Cactus" callsign on the radio)  Wink
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wn676
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RE: US A321 Engines

Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:50 am



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 7):
and the operation is basically HP now

I would actually say it's the other way around, but that's for a different topic...
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AirframeAS
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RE: US A321 Engines

Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:40 am



Quoting GoDIA (Thread starter):
... the west US 321s have IAE engines

Because the 321 has IAE engines, delivered in the US livery makes it a west aircraft??  confused 

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
My guess would be the fact that the IAE V2500 is the superior "Hot and High" engine

 checkmark  I have the shirt that explains how one engine on HP's fleet never had to be removed in 11 years, that's a lot to brag about. Quite an accomplishment and a very reliable engine.

Quoting LASOctoberB6 (Reply 5):
Since when did HP get A321s?

They didn't. IIRC, this order was made shortly right before the merger even started, or has started.

Quoting Wn676 (Reply 8):
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 7):
and the operation is basically HP now

I would actually say it's the other way around, but that's for a different topic...

Actually, Parker is in control, making it an "HP run" company using the US brand name.
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PHLapproach
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RE: US A321 Engines

Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:24 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):
Because the 321 has IAE engines, delivered in the US livery makes it a west aircraft??

In my book, if an aircraft is operated by a West crew. It's a West aircraft.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: US A321 Engines

Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:12 am



Quoting PHLapproach (Reply 10):
In my book, if an aircraft is operated by a West crew. It's a West aircraft.

The new 321's have a registration ending in UW. In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.

Before the merger, some east aircraft had the UW registrations. I think you get my point.
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wn676
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RE: US A321 Engines

Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:18 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):

The new 321's have a registration ending in UW. In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.

Before the merger, some east aircraft had the UW registrations. I think you get my point.

You do understand that the crews are still split between east and west, correct?

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):
Actually, Parker is in control, making it an "HP run" company using the US brand name.

And yet we've picked up the higher costs, union representation, and policies of the pre-merger US Airways. I know that a part of the HP way of doing things still lingers, but I'd say that the bulk of our operation is run like the east.
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USA9195
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RE: US A321 Engines

Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:45 am



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
The new 321's have a registration ending in UW. In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.

Before the merger, some east aircraft had the UW registrations. I think you get my point.

The new west A-321 ship 510 is N510UW, and is a west aircraft. The first 3 321's are 507AY 508AY and 509AY. So it is starting to intertwine even more. The only way to really tell is the flight number
 
AirframeAS
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RE: US A321 Engines

Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:56 pm



Quoting Wn676 (Reply 12):
You do understand that the crews are still split between east and west, correct?

 sarcastic 

Quoting Wn676 (Reply 12):
And yet we've picked up the higher costs, union representation, and policies of the pre-merger US Airways. I know that a part of the HP way of doing things still lingers, but I'd say that the bulk of our operation is run like the east.

"we" and "our" seems odd...yet your username says WN676....

Quoting USA9195 (Reply 13):
The new west A-321 ship 510 is N510UW, and is a west aircraft.

Weird.... All of the west aircraft end in AW....

Are any of the east crews using this 321??
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wn676
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RE: US A321 Engines

Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:14 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14):
Are any of the east crews using this 321??

No, hence why we call it a "West" aircraft.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14):
"we" and "our" seems odd...yet your username says WN676....

Not quite sure what you're getting at here.

[Edited 2009-04-15 19:17:34]
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AirframeAS
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RE: US A321 Engines

Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:17 pm



Quoting Wn676 (Reply 15):
No, hence why we call it a "West" aircraft.

I don't quite buy that... the registration really gets me here.... Sorry.
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thegman
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RE: US A321 Engines

Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:44 am

The registration as UW is simply to keep type-commonality with the rest of the 321 fleet.
Now, I am not sure why the first 3 321s delivered to US have an AY registration, because at this point all US widebodies have an AY reg.
 
Maverick623
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RE: US A321 Engines

Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:26 am



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
The new 321's have a registration ending in UW.

Not all of them. 507-509 end in AY, because AW was already taken. The rest will end in UW for commonality.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.

With all due respect, your book doesn't count for much in this case.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
Before the merger, some east aircraft had the UW registrations

An interesting side note: when a "UW" plane goes into the paint shop, it gets re-registered as "US".

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
I don't quite buy that... the registration really gets me here.... Sorry.

May I ask why registration is the driving factor for you?

Quoting TheGMan (Reply 17):
Now, I am not sure why the first 3 321s delivered to US have an AY registration, because at this point all US widebodies have an AY reg.

In an internal memo, it was explained that when we ordered the first few "west" 321s with IAE engines, 507-509AW were already assigned, and we wanted to keep the regs as close as possible, and also since we have several aircraft with AY regs. The rest will be delivered with UWs for commonality.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 14):
"we" and "our" seems odd...yet your username says WN676....

I can assure you he also works for US.
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kparke777
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RE: US A321 Engines

Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:15 am

Anyone know the thrust rating on the CFM and IAE 321's?
 
AirframeAS
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RE: US A321 Engines

Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:08 pm



Quoting Kparke777 (Reply 19):
Anyone know the thrust rating on the CFM and IAE 321's?

It really varies from operator to operator or type to type. One CFM might not have the same thrust rating as another CFM on the same type.
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wagz
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RE: US A321 Engines

Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:24 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
The new 321's have a registration ending in UW. In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.

Before the merger, some east aircraft had the UW registrations. I think you get my point.

Since when do registrations have anything to do with who operates an aicraft? The "West" aircraft only have reg's with AW because they were originally purchased and operated by an airline called "America West". You may have noticed there is no airline with that name anymore. Those reg's still exist because there is no real reason to change them. The airplanes still fly either way. The airline changed some "East" reg's to fit within a global fleet numbering system, and decided to use AY. Its not surprising that new aicraft delivered to either side would have a reg ending in AY, UW or anything else that roughly goes along with the name of the airline.

Whether you like it or not, those A321s with IAE engines are based in PHX/LAS, operate with West Crews, operate West routes, and fly with West flight numbers. And lo and behold, another new A321 was just delivered to the East side AFTER those West A321s, and it has CFMs! Just like the other 2 or 3 A321s delieverd to the East last year. And all of those East A321s are numbered in the 190 series reg's. Amazingly enough, they all operate out of PHL/CLT on east routes, with east crews and east flight numbers.
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AirframeAS
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RE: US A321 Engines

Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:37 pm



Quoting Wagz (Reply 21):

You should know, I worked for HP. You do not need to lecture me. But I thank you for said lecture when it wasn't necessary and some of what you said was a bit uncalled for.
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gigneil
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RE: US A321 Engines

Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:23 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):
Because the 321 has IAE engines, delivered in the US livery makes it a west aircraft??   



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
The new 321's have a registration ending in UW. In my book, this classifies as an east aircraft as every single one of the west aircraft has a registration ending in AW.



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
I don't quite buy that... the registration really gets me here.... Sorry.

You're quite argumentative. They're right - the current IAE ones are being operated in the west and not crossing over.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 20):
One CFM might not have the same thrust rating as another CFM on the same type.

US's CFM56-5B3s are rated by the FAA at 32,000 lbs thrust. US's IAE V2533-A5 SelectOnes are rated at 33,000.

NS
 
AirframeAS
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RE: US A321 Engines

Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:27 pm



Quoting Gigneil (Reply 23):
US's CFM56-5B3s are rated by the FAA at 32,000 lbs thrust. US's IAE V2533-A5 SelectOnes are rated at 33,000.

I was speaking in general. Airlines can derate their thrust ratings as they deem necessary for the benefit of their operations.
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trex8
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RE: US A321 Engines

Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:25 pm

maybe IAE just gave them a better price????
 
crjflyer35
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RE: US A321 Engines

Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:20 pm



Quoting PHLapproach (Reply 10):
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):
Because the 321 has IAE engines, delivered in the US livery makes it a west aircraft??

In my book, if an aircraft is operated by a West crew. It's a West aircraft.

Wow, a whole lot of animosity running around this thread....

I'm a ramp team lead for US here in PHX, the new 321's with IAE engines (which look soooo much better then the bulby CFM's BTW) were already on the books for HP. You guys mention a UW registration as being "East," but did you mention the AY ones as well, notably being 508, 509, and 510 off the top of my head. They are indeed West aircraft, operated by West crews.

I belive the issue was availability of the AW registration...
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AirframeAS
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RE: US A321 Engines

Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:36 pm



Quoting Crjflyer35 (Reply 26):
I belive the issue was availability of the AW registration...

It would have made more sense, IMHO, if the new 21's were in the AW registration.
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crjflyer35
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RE: US A321 Engines

Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:47 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 27):
Quoting Crjflyer35 (Reply 26):
I belive the issue was availability of the AW registration...

It would have made more sense, IMHO, if the new 21's were in the AW registration.

I agree, but again, I belive it was an issue of availability...
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AirframeAS
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RE: US A321 Engines

Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:31 pm



Quoting Crjflyer35 (Reply 28):
I agree, but again, I belive it was an issue of availability...

That MIGHT be an issue, however... AS use to have the 300's in the AS format on the 727's back in the early 90's.. Those same numbers now are on the 739's. Case in point.....

Take N305AS on the 722 at AS:


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Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



Now the same reg, N305AS also with AS but on a 739....


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Photo © Manas Barooah



HP/US could have done the same here, but using the old reg's from some of the 732's they phased out. I guess they chose not to do that.
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wn676
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RE: US A321 Engines

Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:20 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 29):
HP/US could have done the same here, but using the old reg's from some of the 732's they phased out. I guess they chose not to do that.

Those regs would have conflicted with East ship numbers. I think they might use the old regs from the East 737-300 fleet though, as most if not all of those have 500-series ship numbers and will be phased out soon.
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crjflyer35
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RE: US A321 Engines

Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:45 pm



Quoting Wn676 (Reply 30):
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 29):
HP/US could have done the same here, but using the old reg's from some of the 732's they phased out. I guess they chose not to do that.

Those regs would have conflicted with East ship numbers. I think they might use the old regs from the East 737-300 fleet though, as most if not all of those have 500-series ship numbers and will be phased out soon.

Correct, and also remember these are West orders that the East operations never had their hands in, therefore were never destined to have a NxxxUS reg. My question of availability wasn't within the US Fleet structure, but from the FAA.

I just looked at the FAA's website and N number query, 508AW is available, and it shows 509 and 510AW as deregistered (previously on Fokker F27's for United)

Perhaps this was one of the little attempts by Mgmt to unite the East and West sides of the house rather then sticking with the West "AW" theme?
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AirframeAS
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RE: US A321 Engines

Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:40 pm



Quoting Crjflyer35 (Reply 31):
Perhaps this was one of the little attempts by Mgmt to unite the East and West sides of the house rather then sticking with the West "AW" theme?

Now that I think about it, that is a pretty good theory. I wonder if this is really the case. If so, then I'll accept it as that.
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