vietsky
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Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:54 am

Dear A. friends,

I'm usually fly on VNA 321. And sometimes I flown on the aircraft that has nose like this. I'm always curious on why. Could you guy explain me why? This is happened to VNA, does other have the same? or just Airbus/VNA


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Thanks guys!

Vietsky
 
zappbrannigan
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:09 am

Could just be a temporary replacement nose cone... like the Virgin 737 that taxied into the side of the terminal here, it was a white 737-300 used during their startup period, and they only had red noses (due to the rest of their fleet being red), so it was flying around with a red nose for ages - I think they just left it on for Red Nose day and pretended it was deliberate.

This could be a temporary nose cone, or it could have been borrowed from another airline (seen that here in MEL a couple of times too).
 
320tech
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:19 am

Looks to me like a repaired radome that hasn't been painted yet. The black part is the carbon fibre material, and I have to assume the white portion is either paint or some other coating to prevent erosion until it is properly painted.

Why you would see this on a regular basis, I have no idea. Radomes can get damaged by hail, birds, or ground handling, but it's not that common. You definitely wouldn't want to leave it like this for long.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:38 am

Quoting 320tech (Reply 3):
The black part is the carbon fibre material, and I have to assume the white portion is either paint or some other coating to prevent erosion until it is properly painted.

I thought you shouldn't make a radome from carbon fiber...carbon fiber is too conductive to be radar transparent. Radomes are usually fiberglass or kevar for that reason. It's possible that the front white part is non-carbon and back part (behind the beam sweep area) is carbon, but that seems unnecessarily complex.

Tom.

[Edited 2009-04-18 00:38:52]
 
iRISH251
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:26 pm

It is a replacement nose cone - like in this photo:


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474218
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:12 pm

Quoting 320tech (Reply 3):
The black part is the carbon fibre material,



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 4):
Radomes are usually fiberglass or kevar for that reason.

Correct, the majority of radomes are made of "epoxy resin impregnated glass cloth" (fiberglass).

[Edited 2009-04-19 14:14:56]
 
vietsky
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:10 am

Thanks Guys for the explanation. I saw couples for VNA 321 birds that have the nose like that.

Pretty funny and ugly. Just wish after the replacement, they should paint it.

Vietsky
 
320tech
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:18 am



Quoting 474218 (Reply 6):
the majority of radomes are made of "epoxy resin impregnated glass cloth" (fiberglass).

Sorry, I meant to just say "composite", rather than carbon fibre. I couldn't recall offhand what radomes are made from.
The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the manufacturer and impossible for the AME.
 
EMBQA
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:41 pm

The black part is the Anti-Static paint. It's a bonding paint used on composite surfaces to better bond the composite to the structure. What is odd here is I've always been told and read you can not fly it in that condition. It must be at least in primer.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
NBGSkyGod
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:40 pm

It looks like the standard airbus primer nose cone color. If you look at some of the unpainted A320srs before they are painted, and in flight test they have that coloring.


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[Edited 2009-04-21 09:41:30]
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EcuadorianMD11
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Tue May 12, 2009 6:43 pm

Interesting,

I always wondered about this KLM MD-11 arriving in the early morning at GYE (from BON and AMS), about a year ago. Is this the same story, a recent nose replacement and no time to paint?

It isn´t the greatest of pictures but it illustrates my point:

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Anybody knows any details?

I always watch this beautiful plane landing at GYE when I wait for family and friends to arrive from AMS, (this explains my AIRLINERS.NET nickname) but normally it doesn´t land white-nosed!
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Tue May 12, 2009 11:46 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
Is this the same story, a recent nose replacement and no time to paint?

Probably. Happens all the time.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Wed May 13, 2009 4:02 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
Is this the same story, a recent nose replacement and no time to paint?

A nose cone is a rather flimsy structure that also happens to get the brunt of the aerodynamic forces and any solid object that happens to be in front of the plane.

So they get replaced a lot.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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EcuadorianMD11
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Sat May 30, 2009 1:49 am

A nose change happens so often?
I haven´t seen many battered "overdue" noses, but maybe I just never paid attention.

Odd, at the MD 11 pic they obviously found the time to paint the dark blue line but an awkwardly timed coffee break (or something like that) caused the plane to leave white nosed.

Is there a KLM maintenance guy / lass on Airliners.net at all?
I´d like to ask him / her some tough questions! Beware!!

I presume the nose cone damage comes down to "gliding debris", stuff that the aircraft runs in to that subsequently damages the nose. Do windshields need to be replaced often, and / or wipers for that matter? They take some hammering as well, yeah?

Cheers,

Ecuadorian MD11
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Sat May 30, 2009 9:57 am



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 13):
Is there a KLM maintenance guy / lass on Airliners.net at all?
I´d like to ask him / her some tough questions! Beware!!

What makes you think you'd get official responses on a public forum  wink 

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 13):
I presume the nose cone damage comes down to "gliding debris", stuff that the aircraft runs in to that subsequently damages the nose

The Radome "condom" helps a lot in delaying damage to the nose by forming a coat on the front.

regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Sat May 30, 2009 10:12 am



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 13):
Do windshields need to be replaced often, and / or wipers for that matter? They take some hammering as well, yeah?

Windshields, not as often. But they are much tougher.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Sat May 30, 2009 9:09 pm



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 15):
Windshields, not as often. But they are much tougher.

Heated windshields are tougher until the heat control unit mal;functions.  wink 
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
EcuadorianMD11
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:49 pm



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 14):
What makes you think you'd get official responses on a public forum

In this case I don´t think, I hope...........

Anyone:

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 13):
Is there a KLM maintenance guy / lass on Airliners.net at all?
I´d like to ask him / her some tough questions! Beware!!

At all?

Ecuadorian MD11
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:21 am



Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 16):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 15):
Windshields, not as often. But they are much tougher.

Heated windshields are tougher until the heat control unit mal;functions.

As on this WestJet 737-700 a day or two ago (from Transport Canada daily incident summary):

Westjet Boeing 737-700 (C-GWBJ), operating as WJA343, was en route from Edmonton to Kelowna. At about 90 NM northeast of Kelowna while descending through FL270, the captain's forward window began arcing in the upper right-hand corner and then cracked. The crew completed the window damage QRH checklist and the arcing stopped when power was removed from the window. After consulting with company maintenance by radio, it was decided to divert to Calgary for maintenance action. The aircraft subsequently landed at Calgary without further event.
 
soon7x7
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:49 am



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 13):

Radomes are subject to sand blasting erosion at altitude by ice crystals and are sometimes covered with a clear silicone film to resist that effect. Actually seen more on private jets. Aside from bird strikes they last a long time but MX's must be vigilant for delaminations for obvious reasons, it's the first component of the streamlining process. I just happen to have one...it is seven feet across and can be picked up by one person. This one is from a 747. Weighs about 115 lbs...j
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HAWK21M
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:13 am

Coincidenly tonight I noticed a Radome on an AI A320 in a real bad shape due rain damage.Guess it would be replaced soon.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
EcuadorianMD11
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:06 pm



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 19):
I just happen to have one...it is seven feet across and can be picked up by one person.

Great! May I be the one to pick it up from you then!?? I´d come alone.............
Makes a good base for a decent size (glass) dinner table!

Nice one mate, odd color though!
What airline was that?
Ecuadorian MD11
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
soon7x7
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:13 am



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 21):

Evergreen, N481EV...neighbors love it...told them ,get used to it or I'll bring home the whole plane!
 
BWilliams
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:00 am



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 22):

I'm jealous, Soon7x7 ... how in God's name did you score a nosecone, sir ... that's awesome.
Regards, Brad Williams
 
soon7x7
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:11 am



Quoting BWilliams (Reply 23):

ebay!...I kid you not...I couldn't resist...j  drool 
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:12 pm

Soon7x7, do you remember the name of the seller?
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
BMI727
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:17 pm

I go to STL fairly often and it isn't at all uncommon to see a Chatauqua or other RJ with a mismatched nosecone.

I remember seeing a picture a while back of a UA 757 that had the nosecone painted upside down too.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
smcmac32msn
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:59 am



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
family and friends to arrive from AMS, (this explains my AIRLINERS.NET nickname) but normally it doesn´t land white-nosed!



Maybe it was cold up there and all the "blood" left the nose  Wink  duck 
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
 
soon7x7
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:33 am



Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 25):

negative, but I do have a copy somewhere of the item ebay auction...somewhere...
 
soon7x7
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:38 am



Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 25):

It's easy to obtain goodies like this nose...just get out to Mohave, Tucson...any of the boneyards, after the scrapers cannobolize the plane for rotables, the destroy the rest, keeping many components for collectors, theater, ...for many reasons...the stuff is all over the place!
 
EcuadorianMD11
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:04 pm



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 29):
It's easy to obtain goodies like this nose

Yep, if you live in the States that is...........

Still waiting for somebody to give me a hint concerning scrapyards in Western Latin America.
They don´t scrap planes here, they either fly´m (with government subsidized fuel) or store them in the airport!!

Bummer............

Ecuadorian MD11.
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
BWilliams
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:01 am



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 29):

Ya don't say ... the scrapyards will sell parts like that to any-old airnut, if they can't be recertified for flight? I figured they'd just crush them and turn them into cans or something.

Damn it all, I need to move west.
Regards, Brad Williams
 
soon7x7
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RE: Why The Nose Of A321 Like This?

Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:06 am



Quoting BWilliams (Reply 31):

Yes...They can get more for certain items from an airliner nut than the scrap weight would yield.

A place such as Mirana...No...unless you have a contact there...they are quick to cannabolize-cut up. Other yards though save some cool items for collectors and anyone that seeks them out. Check out "Motoarts" website...where do you think they get all that material for fabrication. I'm glad I don't live out west...Other yards exist too...Ardmore Oaklahoma, Memphis Tennesee, Glaxton, NC. I even have a yard four miles from my home with 747 components in the secured yard, but the proprietors are not an approachable lot.

Bottom line is...if you can pay for the shipping..it's yours!

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