flaps30
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North/South Ops: What Happens When East/West Winds

Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:20 pm

I live here in the SLC area and was just curious about something. Here at SLC, they have 3 parallel runways that run North/South and no crosswind runway for commercial jets. What happens when the wind blows directly from the East or from the West which happens more often than not. How does the tower decide which direction to take off and land(North or South?).
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wilco737
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RE: North/South Ops: What Happens When East/West Winds

Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:22 pm



Quoting Flaps30 (Thread starter):

Usually there is a "Standard" landing direction. FRA has east/ west runways for landing and if the wind is exactly cross, then they always use 25s for landing. Sometimes they take in account the winds during approach. It doesn't help if you have 30 knots tailwind on final, so they consider that as well. Of course they need pilot reports here.

wilco737
 
flaps30
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RE: North/South Ops: What Happens When East/West Winds

Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:31 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 1):
if the wind is exactly cross, then they always use 25s for landing.

Thats my point, because SLC does not have the luxury of a crosswind runway, I wonder which ops they would use. Do they base it on feedback from other pilots who are arriving and departing?
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wilco737
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RE: North/South Ops: What Happens When East/West Winds

Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:33 pm



Quoting Flaps30 (Reply 2):
Thats my point, because SLC does not have the luxury of a crosswind runway,

Frankfurt doesn't have a crosswind landing as well. They can pretty much use whichever they want to. As long as the wind is exactly cross, then it doesn't matter which runway you use, no matter if the crosswind is coming from left or from the right.

wilco737
 
vikkyvik
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RE: North/South Ops: What Happens When East/West Winds

Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:28 pm

Quoting Flaps30 (Reply 2):
Thats my point, because SLC does not have the luxury of a crosswind runway, I wonder which ops they would use. Do they base it on feedback from other pilots who are arriving and departing?

Aside from winds on the approach, as Wilco mentioned, I'd guess that the "standard" configuration is driven by whatever is the most efficient, in terms of aircraft movement on the field and in the terminal area surrounding the airport (probably taking into account noise as well).

For example, BOS favors over-water approaches and takeoffs overnight, if the wind allows (runway 15R-33L for both, I believe).

EDIT: Just to clarify, by "terminal area" I was referring to the terminal airspace around the airport  Smile

[Edited 2009-06-08 11:34:14]
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wilco737
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RE: North/South Ops: What Happens When East/West Winds

Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:31 pm



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 4):
most efficient, in terms of aircraft movement on the field and in the terminal area surrounding the airport

Exactly. For FRA it is the 25s as there is no restriction with the take off only runway 18. If the 07s are in use, then there apply restrictions for take off on runway 18.

But that doesn't work for SLC. I guess they'll use the 19s most of the time as you can vacate to the terminal directly and the outbound traffic towards these runway do not disturb the vacating planes. And then you have runway 17 which is mostly for business jets used and there it doesn't make a big difference if 17 or 35.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0905/00365AD.PDF

wilco737
 
flaps30
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RE: North/South Ops: What Happens When East/West Winds

Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:27 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 5):
And then you have runway 17 which is mostly for business jets used and there it doesn't make a big difference if 17 or 35.

Actually runway 17/35 is used all the time by commercial airlines. I have departed on that runway many times. The small somewhat crosswind runway is only used by General aviation planes.
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Alias1024
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RE: North/South Ops: What Happens When East/West W

Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:09 pm

The answer to the poster's question is that most airports will have a preferred direction of operation, based on either airspace restrictions nearby or airfield layout. Another consideration is that even though the winds may be a direct crosswind on the ground, they may be very different just a few hundred feet off of the ground.

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 5):
But that doesn't work for SLC. I guess they'll use the 19s most of the time as you can vacate to the terminal directly and the outbound traffic towards these runway do not disturb the vacating planes. And then you have runway 17 which is mostly for business jets used and there it doesn't make a big difference if 17 or 35.

Typically in a south configuration during busy times, 16L is used almost exclusively for departures, 17 is mostly arrivals, and 16R is a mix of both. 14/32 will be used as a taxiway in that configuration, with 17 arrivals taxiing on 14/32 and holding short of 16L at Q until cleared to cross 16L.
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OPNLguy
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RE: North/South Ops: What Happens When East/West Winds

Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:42 am

At SLC, there's no difference in AAR between a north flow and and south flow..

http://www.fly.faa.gov/Information/west/zlc/slc/slc_aar.htm

In the even of a direct crosswind, they could utilize either flow, and might lean towards one over another if the winds were forecast to start swinging that way at some later point. For example, if they use a south flow with a direct crosswind but the winds were forecast to start coming a little more out of the north, it'd make more sense to go on the north flow from the git-go, and avoid having to start south and turn the airport around later. There are also other variables, and how much crosswind/tailwind an aircraft can handle, and under what visibility and/or field conditions, are just a few.
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