EcuadorianMD11
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A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:12 pm

All,

I recently had the pleasure of travelling a medium haul stretch in a Latin American owned / operated A320 and I noticed that 1 of the aerodynamic parts under the wing (don´t know their technical name, sorry!) vibrated excessively while the one next to it hardly moved.

With "parts" I mean the oval pieces suspended from the wing that are obviously shown in the picture below.

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A320


Shouldn't they vibrate the same throughout?

Furthermore, they both have these "antenna-like" bits at the end, what are they for please?
The angle of the one on the right is definitely "out", does this matter?

If I sound ignorant I don´t argue, but please look at it this way:

"To be an aviation expert lurking around on sites like this means educating others is one of your core responsibilities". Consider it a good deed.
I don´t work in aviation and am just interested to learn a lot more about it!

Any constructive comments are more than welcome!

Cheers,

Ecuadorian MD11
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
AirframeAS
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:30 pm

The canoe fairing on the further right under the flap is where the flap track jackscrews are. The fairing that is to the left of it, that is just a fairing that goes from the engine pylon through the underneath of the flaps. The vibration mostly comes from the canoe fairing than the one from the engine pylon because there is nothing in front of it under the wing.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Thread starter):
Furthermore, they both have these "antenna-like" bits at the end, what are they for please?

Static wicks, to dissipate the static electricity from the friction of the aircraft vs. the airflow.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Thread starter):
The angle of the one on the right is definitely "out", does this matter?

It doesn't matter at all.


I hope this answers your questions.
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soon7x7
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:04 am



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):

If I could add.....my two greatly devalued American cents...
The canoe fairings are largely attached to the flap carriage and not to the wing itself with the exception on some aircraft a small front section will be connected to the wing for streamlining but it would not be evident as a passenger (more obvious on 747's). On a few occassions canoes have dropped off wings while in flight . On the A320 I have seen the top section on the trailling edge come off. Doesn't effect flight but regulations exist as far as a plane flying without one. Typically constructed from honeycomb material, the canoes on n/g 737's are only 1/4" thick. They damage easily if a gound vehicle hits one. The angle that static discharge wicks are mounted usually reflects the typical airflow evident at that location.
 
EcuadorianMD11
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:29 pm

Thanks AirframeAS & soon 7X7,

That made it clear indeed.
The static wicks (never heard of ´m before) only dissipate the electricity.
What would happen if they would not be fitted?
Would this be dangerous to ground staff at all?


The yellow painted bracket on top is for maintenance purposes I imagine (lifting etc), correct?
Painted yellow to avoid any punter tripping over it.

Cheers,


Rutger
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
AirframeAS
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:33 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 3):
What would happen if they would not be fitted?

You would have so much static build up that would harm the airplane significantly.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 3):
Would this be dangerous to ground staff at all?

No, since the aircraft on the ground would be grounded anyway. But not always.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 3):
The yellow painted bracket on top is for maintenance purposes I imagine (lifting etc), correct?
Painted yellow to avoid any punter tripping over it.

The yellow painted bracket is for a cord to be attached to from the emergency exits in case of an emergency to prevent pax from going over the forward of the wing. The person sitting in the emergency exit row would pull that cord and attach it to the yellow bracket. When I go back to work next week, I will take some pics to illustrate my point better for you.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 3):
.....only dissipate the electricity.

.....while in-flight.
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tdscanuck
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:02 am



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 3):
The static wicks (never heard of ´m before) only dissipate the electricity.
What would happen if they would not be fitted?

Most noticeable effect would be loss of radio communication. The voltage on the airplane doesn't really do anything by itself, since the whole plane is at the same potential. But the radio antennas use the fuselage as their ground plane and, if that charges up, the antennas quit working.

Tom.
 
Caryjack
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:05 am



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Thread starter):
"To be an aviation expert lurking around on sites like this means educating others is one of your core responsibilities". Consider it a good deed.
I don´t work in aviation and am just interested to learn a lot more about it!

Nicely put. You'll find lots of good deed-doers around here.  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 2):
Doesn't effect flight but regulations exist as far as a plane flying without one.

I understand that a missing canoe will increase drag which incurs a range penalty - more fuel for the same range.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 5):
But the radio antennas use the fuselage as their ground plane and, if that charges up, the antennas quit working.

I didn't realize that.

Thanks,  smile 
Cary
 
vikkyvik
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:06 am



Quoting Caryjack (Reply 6):

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 2):
Doesn't effect flight but regulations exist as far as a plane flying without one.

I understand that a missing canoe will increase drag which incurs a range penalty - more fuel for the same range.

 checkmark 

That's their primary function - to provide an aerodynamic housing for the flap mechanisms. Otherwise you'd incur a (probably significant) drag penalty.
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DocLightning
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:35 am



Quoting Caryjack (Reply 6):

I understand that a missing canoe will increase drag which incurs a range penalty - more fuel for the same range.

This is actually more involved than you might think. The canoes factor into the "area rule." This is to prevent the cross-section of the aircraft from changing too quickly at the front and rear of the wings. The canoes are actually anti-shock bodies, which is why they are so large and bulbous. They don't *need* to be that big, but they help the aerodynamics a lot.
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Starlionblue
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:51 am



Quoting Caryjack (Reply 6):
I understand that a missing canoe will increase drag which incurs a range penalty - more fuel for the same range.

Quite. Also the canoes protect the flap mechanisms somewhat from dirt, snow, ice and so forth on the ground.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
EcuadorianMD11
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:56 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
When I go back to work next week, I will take some pics to illustrate my point better for you.

That would be appreciated, Airframe A.S! A photo speaks a 1000 words after all!
I´m surprised because as far as I can remember not all planes have this.
But yep, I can see the danger of panicking passengers jumping off the forward end of the wing with the turbines not having come to a complete stop............

I don´t think this is explained sufficiently on all safety cards, of have I just missed it??

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 2):
On a few occassions canoes have dropped off wings while in flight . On the A320 I have seen the top section on the trailling edge come off.

I assume it´s not "normal" for bits to drop off.
Imagine the damage / harm it can cause on the ground!
If this were to happen is the plane taken out of service after arrival at its "home base / maintenance base" to have this fixed? Or don´t airlines have these canoes in stock and do planes continue flying until the time is convenient to do something about it?

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 2):
They damage easily if a gound vehicle hits one.

Does this happen often?
Isn´t "not hitting multi million dollar planes" absolute priority on any apron / airport platform?
Ah well, I suppose the stress and time limits cause people to cut corners, happens in all industries. "Safety safety safety first" until it costs time / money...........now one is suddenly supposed to bend the rules to get the job done on time! At least that is what I see in the line of work I´m in! I bet a lot of accidents happened because of mistakes of people under pressure from superiors who are under pressure from their superiors / clients etc.

Cheers for all that info, people!

Ecuadorian MD11
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
AirframeAS
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:35 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
I don´t think this is explained sufficiently on all safety cards, of have I just missed it??

Looking at our safety card, it does actually illustrate the rope I am talking about. Also, it does show the layout of the aircraft on where to go when exiting through the over-wing exits as follows: On the ground, go to the aft of the wing down the slide. Over water: Go outboard of the wing towards the wingtip fence and go off the leading edge of the wing.

But I will still take more pictures for you and post them here next week.
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soon7x7
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:49 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):

I have been at a local major airport near where I live and before runway changes the ops people will conduct a "runway sweep"...they do find access covers,and other parts on the runway...some sizable.

Ramp rash as it is called are ground vehicles hitting the aircraft. some of the box type catering trucks are the biggest violators. Look at the canoes, wing tips and blade antennas and nose gear doors on European carriers planes...they are painted a fire red to attract attention to the ground handlers...They don't seem to use this color coded practice much in the states. Some airlines do but think it is just a corporate move.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:03 pm



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 12):
Ramp rash as it is called are ground vehicles hitting the aircraft.

This happens the MOST on lower geared airplanes like M80's and 737's. But not as much on the A320 series aircraft... BUT........

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 12):
...ome of the box type catering trucks are the biggest violators.

This type of damage happens the most on the A320 aircraft than anything else.
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tdscanuck
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:39 am



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
I assume it´s not "normal" for bits to drop off.
Imagine the damage / harm it can cause on the ground!

No, it's not normal, but it does happen. If you actually got hit by a falling bit it could certainly be fatal. Fortunately, the size of the parts relative to the size of the ground makes an actual impact on someone fairly unlikely.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
If this were to happen is the plane taken out of service after arrival at its "home base / maintenance base" to have this fixed? Or don´t airlines have these canoes in stock and do planes continue flying until the time is convenient to do something about it?

It depends on what's wrong. Airliners have a document called the CDL (Configuration Deviation List), which lists all the parts you can legally operate the aircraft without. Usually, there's some drag or fuel correction to apply as long as you've got the missing part. So you can continue operation, with the restrictions, until you can get the aircraft to a base with a replacement part.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
Does this happen often?
Isn´t "not hitting multi million dollar planes" absolute priority on any apron / airport platform?

A lot more often than you'd expect.

Tom.
 
soon7x7
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:00 am



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 14):

Some ramp operators that drive vehicles at our local airports don't even own cars...

Years ago some guy walking down Jones beach on Long Island found and engine cowl (composite) form a Delta L1011. Was a fairly large piece...and while I was surfing out in the Hamptons I found a light gray composite access door floating in the water. It must have been left open as it was torn at the hinge point. It was clearly from a heavy transport.
Big version: Width: 900 Height: 600 File size: 314kb
note orange open access door left of landing lights
 
EcuadorianMD11
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:59 pm



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 15):
Some ramp operators that drive vehicles at our local airports don't even own cars...

Nice one!
I imagine there´s some interesting lawsuits going on between aircraft owners and careless ramp operators worldwide! It´s not just the physical damage, it´s also the delay when an aircraft is not able to take off anymore due to ill apron-driving!!



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 13):
This type of damage happens the most on the A320 aircraft than anything else.

Why mainly on A320´s?
Are they so low? Aren´t planes like the 737 extremely similar?

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 15):
and while I was surfing out in the Hamptons I found a light gray composite access door floating in the water.

Is it illegal to keep parts of aircrafts?
Where do you hand ´m in though? Your local airport?

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
But I will still take more pictures for you and post them here next week.

Please do!

Ecuadorian MD11
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
AirframeAS
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:14 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 16):
Why mainly on A320´s?
Are they so low? Aren´t planes like the 737 extremely similar?

The A320's are taller and the 737's are closer to the ground.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 16):
Please do!

Not a problem!  Smile
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soon7x7
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:37 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 16):

I'll post a shot of the USAirways canoes that survived the Hudson River landing..(ditching)...I was amaxed they even stayed attached.
Big version: Width: 1024 Height: 683 File size: 421kb
N106US,Huson River A320
 
tdscanuck
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:25 am



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 16):
Why mainly on A320´s?
Are they so low? Aren´t planes like the 737 extremely similar?

A320's are considerably higher. I think that makes people think they might be able to get under one. Nobody's going to think for a second they can get under a 737.

Tom.
 
EcuadorianMD11
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:48 pm



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 18):
I'll post a shot of the USAirways canoes that survived the Hudson River landing..(ditching)...I was amaxed they even stayed attached.

Amazing indeed!
That must have been a favorable angle of impact for those canoes!

Soon 7x7, did you keep that access door part your found, or was your "board" still priority to be taken home?
I really wonder if you´re actually allowed to keep things like that!
It beats the old sailing ship in a bottle on top of the fire place in my opinion.........

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 19):
A320's are considerably higher. I think that makes people think they might be able to get under one. Nobody's going to think for a second they can get under a 737

Fair enough!
But then I imagine that bigger planes suffer from this false sense of security as well at times.

Then 1 more additional question since we´re on the topic of wing impact / damage etc:
Is it true that high constructions like radar masts or elevated runway lights etc close to major airports are made of a lighter material in order to sheer off at impact instead of the aircraft´s wing sheering off?
I read it somewhere once, can´t remember where!

Cheers,

Ecuadorian MD11
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
tdscanuck
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:41 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 20):
Fair enough!
But then I imagine that bigger planes suffer from this false sense of security as well at times.

I think they do, but you've actually got a chance to get under there with the really big planes. Many airport vehicles, like baggage trains, can get under a 747 without smacking the fuselage. It's still a very bad idea, but it's possible.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 20):
Is it true that high constructions like radar masts or elevated runway lights etc close to major airports are made of a lighter material in order to sheer off at impact instead of the aircraft´s wing sheering off?

I'm not sure about radar masts, but runway lights definitely have a breakaway point, although I think it's more for snowplows than airplanes.

Tom.
 
soon7x7
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:20 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 20):

I did hold onto it as it was composite and no longer useful...literally hungdreds of planes fly over long island daily wasn't that big...14"x9"...found it ten years ago...I call it space junk...at the high tide line on long island beaches...if you know what to look for, you will always find an aircraft piece of material...I've found parts from other type planes that were fairly old. During wwll...many warbirds were built and tested on Lon Island. Pieces from air disaster can literally float thousands of miles in ocean currents and take months...j
 
474218
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:06 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
I assume it´s not "normal" for bits to drop off.

While it is not normal for "bits" to drop off, it does happen. Back when there were lots of L-1011's flying, every once in awhile one would lose a MLG fix strut door. At first we called these "isolated incidents" but after the 14th "isolated incident" the FAA made (by an AD) Lockheed re-design an the door attachment.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:33 pm



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 21):

I think they do, but you've actually got a chance to get under there with the really big planes. Many airport vehicles, like baggage trains, can get under a 747 without smacking the fuselage. It's still a very bad idea, but it's possible.

At my airline, if one is caught driving under any of the Airbuses, it is an automatic termination.
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EcuadorianMD11
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:45 am



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 24):
At my airline, if one is caught driving under any of the Airbuses, it is an automatic termination.

Hmmmm, that´s harsh.........

I take it when you say "any of the Airbuses" it means your company only flies Airbuses........or are there different working contract conditions for whatever type of plane you happen to attend to?

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 22):
I did hold onto it as it was composite and no longer useful...literally hungdreds of planes fly over long island daily wasn't that big...14"x9"...found it ten years ago...I call it space junk...at the high tide line on long island beaches...if you know what to look for, you will always find an aircraft piece of material...I've found parts from other type planes that were fairly old. During wwll...many warbirds were built and tested on Lon Island. Pieces from air disaster can literally float thousands of miles in ocean currents and take months...j

That´s cool.......I´d love to live in an area where planes drop bits!!
I have the pleasaure of living close to an international airport but although the 737-200 seems to be the standard around here, they hardly ever lose parts!
Not during my watch anyway........

But still, the questions stands: is it ilegal to keep parts?
Don´t have an idea........


Ecuadorian MD11
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
vikkyvik
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:35 am



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 21):
I'm not sure about radar masts, but runway lights definitely have a breakaway point, although I think it's more for snowplows than airplanes.

Runway approach lights, at least, are frangible.

Of course, when they're mounted on a wooden or metal pier (due to water or slopes or something), that sort of eliminates the usefulness of the frangibility.....(see the photos):

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19990601-0
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soon7x7
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:22 am



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 25):

If the parts that were found immedietely followed a major transport aircraft that was supected of fowl play (terrorism), then yes, it would be illegal. During TWA event many postings on TV by the FBI warned that anyone finding and keeping "evidence" would be arrested. Some people put the parts on ebay, some hung on walls in local bars...Feds just confiscated them. When an event occurs however where the cause was due to other factors and no criminal activity was supected in the crash...local police would pick up what they could , sometimes ask volunteers to help but if you looked carefully enough,...you still find bits...and most authorities couldn't be bothered. I remeber once a TWA 747 took off out of JFK enroute to Paris and blew an engine at 1300 feet over sunrise highway. (Popular local road). In a park next to it, it rained fan blade parts. Everyone was grabbing them...they were still warm...was like an easter Egg hunt....no police! Recently a friend of mine crashed into the Atlantic in his P-40 Warhawk. I recently asked if they got the plane out yet...they said no, they were going to leave it...it's only in about 20 feet of water.PS...my friend did not survive...

If you like aircraft parts surely you must have scrap yards that break up aircraft...I go to the Arizone desert to buy stuff. I make furniture out of it....You can also buy on ebay.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:51 am



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 25):
Hmmmm, that´s harsh........

Not really, I would like to say that is industry standard.... because each airline operates differently, I can't say that. But my airline has that strict rule to prevent ramp rash and putting aircraft out of service and costing us money.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 25):
I take it when you say "any of the Airbuses" it means your company only flies Airbuses........

We only have A318's, A319's and A320's.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 25):

But still, the questions stands: is it ilegal to keep parts?

It depends, but generally....no. Soon7x7 has a better explanation than I do in reply #27.

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 27):
You can also buy on ebay.

Dammit! You beat me to it, I was gonna suggest this!  wave 
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
EcuadorianMD11
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:10 pm



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 27):
my friend did not survive...

R.I.P.

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 27):
it's only in about 20 feet of water

Uh oh, that may become a popular spot for scuba divers (read "looters").

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 27):
surely you must have scrap yards that break up aircraft...

Well, here in Latin America they tend to keep the planes on the airport aprons, no matter what state they´re in.
For instance: Quito or Lima are basically scrapyards with an international terminal built next to ´m. The Iberia A340 that was written off is still in Quito to give you one example, as well as a selection of ancient "laid up" 727´s etc. Lima is even worse.........interesting to see though, the old kit literally lying around there.
If somebody knows a demolition site for planes on the Western side of Latin America I´d be anxious to know where!


Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 28):
Not really, I would like to say that is industry standard.... because each airline operates differently, I can't say that. But my airline has that strict rule to prevent ramp rash and putting aircraft out of service and costing us money.

Very understandable, I just thought maybe a final warning or something like that instead of instant dismissal. But yeah, you´re right...........it is a major "no-no".

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 27):
if you looked carefully enough,...you still find bits

But then you hear these stories about ghosts appearing at sites where people keep parts of ill fated planes!

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 27):
I go to the Arizone desert to buy stuff. I make furniture out of it

Of course you do, if you live close enough!
Make a jaccuzi in a nacelle...........


Ecuadorian MD11
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
soon7x7
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:13 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 29):

I don't , I live on the east coast and have to shipp everything back...that a346 that was damaged, if it is a write off they will cannabolize it for the rotables(still usable parts) but then the airframe will be broken up .The scrapers won't have a hard time given you a souvenir. They just want the aluminum...The composites will serve no purpose to them. investigate who the closest scrap yard would be to the location of the airframe...give them some aircraft photos, they'll give you some parts. Next couple of weeks I will be selling items on ebay...they are airframe.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 29):

I'm the only ghost that shows up!
 
chrisMUC
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:32 am



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 3):
The yellow painted bracket on top is for maintenance purposes I imagine (lifting etc), correct?
Painted yellow to avoid any punter tripping over it.

AirframeAS is correct that it's there to attach a cord, the other end will be attached to a hook inside the frame of the emergency exits.
The cord is stowed in a narrow bin just overhead the over wing exits.

But it's not used to prevent people from falling over the leading edge during an evacuation - this wouldn't be practical. It's too complicated / time consuming to install it since there are no flight attendants seated at the over wing exits. If I recall correctly, it's not even described on the safety cards. Btw engines will be shut down before an evacuation is initiated (hopefully).
It's there for the very rare case of a ditching / rwy overrun into water. In those cases the primary evacuation path on A318-320, B737 and probably other types is via the over wing exits. Then people standing on the wing can hold onto the cord to not fall into the water.
 
EcuadorianMD11
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:19 pm



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 30):
The scrapers won't have a hard time given you a souvenir. They just want the aluminum...The composites will serve no purpose to them.

You reckon?
Well, I´ll ask around, definitely.
A cockpit window would be cool...........
What are your favorite bits you have lying around the house?

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
Looking at our safety card, it does actually illustrate the rope I am talking about.



Quoting ChrisMUC (Reply 31):
If I recall correctly, it's not even described on the safety cards.

Different airlines, different safety cards!

Quoting ChrisMUC (Reply 31):
It's there for the very rare case of a ditching / rwy overrun into water. In those cases the primary evacuation path on A318-320, B737 and probably other types is via the over wing exits. Then people standing on the wing can hold onto the cord to not fall into the water.

Okay, thanks for that!!
Although the "there is no flight attendant in the emergency exit row" argument goes for ditching as well of course...........it´s maybe hard to deploy this cord in practice when all passengers are legging it out of the cabin like rats leaving a sinking ship.

Is this cord part of the "over water" certificate of the aircraft?
I mean, do all A318-A320 / 737 have it?

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 30):
I'm the only ghost that shows up!

I thought your user name was a bit spooky............

Ecuadorian MD11
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
AirframeAS
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:56 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 32):
Different airlines, different safety cards!

Yes, but the logic is the same throughout regardless of airline.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 32):
Is this cord part of the "over water" certificate of the aircraft?

At my company, all of the Airbuses have them. I think with the other airlines, the 737 has them. It has been a long, long time since I last touched a Boeing.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
soon7x7
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:07 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 32):

Aer Lingus upper crew escape door (5') tall, not the small hatch, from EI-BED. Vertical fin panels from EI-BED with parts of the large white clover on it. The set of American Airlines 767 composite wing panels from their very first 767/200. Believe it or not, got them on ebay. A TWA 747 vertical fin leading edge from N93108, (latest colors). 747 Nose Bowl . and 7 foot long American flag from the vertical fin of TWA N93107. and 757 wingtips and one 737/700 wingtip with all light fixtures.
 
EcuadorianMD11
Topic Author
Posts: 132
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:45 pm



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 34):
Aer Lingus upper crew escape door (5') tall, not the small hatch, from EI-BED. Vertical fin panels from EI-BED with parts of the large white clover on it. The set of American Airlines 767 composite wing panels from their very first 767/200. Believe it or not, got them on ebay. A TWA 747 vertical fin leading edge from N93108, (latest colors). 747 Nose Bowl . and 7 foot long American flag from the vertical fin of TWA N93107. and 757 wingtips and one 737/700 wingtip with all light fixtures.

Good stuff, if you have the space to store it all neatly!
I wonder where the 737-700 wingtips comes from as this is a relatively new plane..........
But yeah, keep going and soon you´ll be able to build your own design out of all the parts you have!

I´ll just concentrate on getting all the parts for my recently acquired Ultra Light plane for now! But I´ll keep it in mind, ta very much!

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 33):
At my company, all of the Airbuses have them. I think with the other airlines, the 737 has them. It has been a long, long time since I last touched a Boeing.

I´m afraid passenger awareness is rather low on these.........considering that most pax will have trouble telling a 747 apart from a steamtrain and do not care about aviation safety until it may be just a tiny bit too late. I´m to blame myself for not knowing this before and that worries me thinking about 99% of the people I know that know a lot less about aviation than I do.........go figure!

Cheers,

Ecuadorian MD11.
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
AirframeAS
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:12 pm

Ok, I got pics for you, Ecuadorian MD11! Taken last night....

You mentioned the bracket on the wing with the rope...here is the placard on our Airbus A319 that illustrates where the rope is. This is on the left door hatch. Look at Step 5.

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt204/airframef9/-MediaCard-BlackBerry-pictures-IMG0.jpg

And the Boeing 737's do have them. It is hard to see but the same bracket, similiar to the Airbuses... is there. Hard to see but you'll find it above the # 4 spoiler. (Note: This pic was taken on N619SW in SEA on June 6.)

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt204/airframef9/N619SWleftwing.jpg

Now as for the canoe fairings under the wing.....

Behind the #1 engine, flaps up.

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt204/airframef9/IMG_1105.jpg

Directly underneath the wing. You can see the canoe fairing that is attached to the engine pylon.

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt204/airframef9/IMG_1104.jpg

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt204/airframef9/IMG_1106.jpg

Now, over at my area in C-check. You can see the canoe fairing underneath the wing, just aft of the engine on the engine pylon. You can see how it is attached and it moves freely. There is no jackscrew in this fairing. But the other fairings have the jackscrews in them.

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt204/airframef9/IMG_1107.jpg

Behind the flaps, full down....

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt204/airframef9/IMG_1109.jpg

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt204/airframef9/IMG_1110.jpg

AND.... Holly says hello!  Smile

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt204/airframef9/IMG_1108.jpg
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
soon7x7
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:41 am

I love tek shots like that ...those are in somewhat better condition than the photo I post. (reply 18)...When you consider what canoes are made of, the USAirways water ditching, actually caused much less damage to them in my opinion, I would have thought they would just get ripped off...nice to know some integrity exists in lightweight plastcs...j
 
AirframeAS
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:01 am



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 37):
I love tek shots like that ...those are in somewhat better condition than the photo I post.

Aw, shucks! Thanks!  Smile
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:16 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 10):
I assume it´s not "normal" for bits to drop off.

Of course not, but big bits fall off once in a while - engines for example (seem to recall a 747 dropping one over Lake Michigan, but there are more of course), and engine nacelles:

This was on an A320, see Is This Engine Damage Possible Inflight? (by Trent1000 May 15 2009 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 27):
fowl play (terrorism),

I thought "fowl play" would mean bird strike Big grin
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
EcuadorianMD11
Topic Author
Posts: 132
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:36 pm

Airframe A.S,

Your job looks like a hobby to me!
Many of the punters here on Airliners.net would offer a free weekend and pay a decent amount of money to walk around where you (reluctantly perhaps) spend most of your days!

Great pics!
And yes, it shows the difference in vibration between the 2 canoes..........the reason I started this thread a few weeks back after all.

I still don´t understand the actual reason for these canoes but that probably goes back to higher aerodynamics! Anyone willing to give it a shot in Layman´s terms?

I do have another question, in 1 or 2 pics the canoes are open.
I imagined they are hollow (weight), but why open ´m up?
Is there planned maintenance to be done inside those, or is this just a clean up and removal of condensation perhaps?

Oh........and yes, you were right about the safety sign regarding this cord!
I´ll pay more attention next time!

Interesting paint job by the way!

Much obliged to ya,

Ecuadorian MD11
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
soon7x7
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:57 pm



Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 39):

That 747 engine drop was Kalittas way of controlling efficient fuel burn...
 
474218
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:08 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 40):
I do have another question, in 1 or 2 pics the canoes are open.
I imagined they are hollow (weight), but why open ´m up?

Because the flap actuation components are inside the canoes.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:34 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 40):
I still don´t understand the actual reason for these canoes but that probably goes back to higher aerodynamics! Anyone willing to give it a shot in Layman´s terms?

The major function, as 474218 noted, it to protect the flap actuation mechanisms from the outside world. A secondary function is to improve the overall transonic aerodynamics by making the area change as you go over the back of the wing more gradual.

Tom.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:47 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 40):
I do have another question, in 1 or 2 pics the canoes are open.
I imagined they are hollow (weight), but why open ´m up?

Every check we do requires us to open up the flap canoe fairings, always.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 40):
Is there planned maintenance to be done inside those, or is this just a clean up and removal of condensation perhaps?

Always routine mx done in these canoes. On this check we did, we replaced all the seals around the canoes that touch the actual wing.

Also note the canoe fairing directly behind the engine pylon....there is really nothing in there and the purpose for that fairing is to streamline the engine pylon through the wing.

Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 40):
Interesting paint job by the way!

Thank Frontier for that.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
soon7x7
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:25 pm



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 44):

On the A320. what is the composition of the canoes, fibreglass, kevlar or carbon fibre?
 
AirframeAS
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:00 am



Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 45):
On the A320

The pics I took are on A319's. I have not fully worked on an A320 yet....

Quoting Soon7x7 (Reply 45):
what is the composition of the canoes, fibreglass, kevlar or carbon fibre?

Im told is is plastic, mostly. But it feels like fiberglass.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
EcuadorianMD11
Topic Author
Posts: 132
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:54 pm



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 43):
The major function, as 474218 noted, it to protect the flap actuation mechanisms from the outside world. A secondary function is to improve the overall transonic aerodynamics by making the area change as you go over the back of the wing more gradual.

Tom.



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 44):
Also note the canoe fairing directly behind the engine pylon....there is really nothing in there and the purpose for that fairing is to streamline the engine pylon through the wing.

Yep, I´ve got that! Never knew they had that control mechanism inside them.
I´ll be an expert at this soon!!
Thanks, gents!!!

I think it´s a great idea to post "hands on" pics on many of these topics!
It clarifies so much! I think Tdscanuck should have some interesting shot at times for instance!
Shows that many of you guys actually know the job........

Cheers,

Ecuadorian MD11.
A lot of people need to be offended on a regular basis I always felt, and I�´m the very boy to do it! - Billy Connolly
 
tdscanuck
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:14 pm



Quoting EcuadorianMD11 (Reply 47):
I think Tdscanuck should have some interesting shot at times for instance!

I would looooooove to post pictures from work. Unfortunately, my employer doesn't allow cameras on site without a special permit.

Tom.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
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RE: A320 Wing Design And Detailed Questions.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:41 am



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 48):
Unfortunately, my employer doesn't allow cameras on site without a special permit.

That really sucks! Sorry to hear bro, I've always wanted to see your work.  Smile
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.

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