keesje
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Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:27 pm

As indicated by Boeing themselves a 777 enhancement might be on the table to counter the upcoming A350XWB-1000. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aSrA_WRIvXvc.

So I toggled around the numbers a bit and Henry Lam (kaktusdigital.com) made some great slides (again).

Engines
Based on Genx and GE90-115B engines. Overall pressure ratio 25:1, Thrust at sea level: 125,000 lbf, Diameter fan :123 inch.



Dimensions
Wing span: 71.2 m, Fuselage lenght 777-300NG: 242 ft 4 in (73.9 m), 777-400NG: 258 ft (78.9m)

Performance
Maximum payload range Boeing 777-300NG : 6200NM (11,300km), Boeing 777-400NG : 5,500 nmi (10,190 km). Max range (passengers only) Boeing 777-300NG: 8300 nm (15,370km), Boeing 777-400NG : 7900 nmi, (14,800 km)

Capasity
Typical Boeing 777-300NG: 365, Boeing 777-400NG: 420. Max capasity : 550 passengers (both types)

Weights
MTOW Boeing 777-300NG 755,000 lb (340,000 kg), Boeing 777-400NG 797,000 lb (362,000 kg)


Boeing 777-400NG study

Summary
 arrow  Lighter composites wing (787 technology) with better L/D and room for fuel.
 arrow  More fuel efficient, more silent engines, based on certified GE90 and GENX technology.
 arrow  More capasity to bring down CASM and/or offer A380 style products /services.
 arrow  Low risk option to sustain 777-300ER market dominance and replace passenger 747-400s
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
RussianJet
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:32 pm

That is one sweet looking aircraft - particularly like the graceful wingtips.
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seemyseems
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:35 pm

I hope this does happen, it would be great to see what it looks like too!
seemyseems
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:37 pm

An even longer 777? Anyway, interesting stuff.


PH
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ikramerica
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:37 pm

Yes, we've had discussions in the past where I and others posited that any 777NG would need to be a stretch, with capacities of 340-50 and 400 based on a smaller stretch than you suggest (due to the limitations of takeoff roll and gate space) but with more effective 10Y seating than today (through the use of quieter engines, more effective insulation and thinner side walls allowing for 2-4 more inches), and using GE90 engines that incorporate GEnx design enhancements, and a greater use of composites for wings, nose and tail.

Thanks for collecting all the data and ideas into one place. Just try to resist the urge to slap a "copyright keesje" on it this time.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
AA737-823
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:39 pm

As usual, another well-planned market option by Keeje.

Boeing does need an airplane to replace the 744; if the 773ER is a great replacement for classic 747s, they need to come up with a twin to take over for the 744. And the 748 is clearly NOT it.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:43 pm

Assuming the landing gear and tarmac can take the 362t weight, it might be a solid competitor to the A350-1000XWB applying "proven" technology already in use with many airlines around the world today.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:48 pm



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
As usual, another well-planned market option by Keeje.

No, as usual, another well pilfered concept by Keesje without giving any credit to anyone else (other than the artist, which he never used to do, either). Slapping someone else's art on other people's ideas is not innovative thinking. It's just a nice presentation of preexisting concepts.

Other than adding 20 seats to the ideas of others (without providing market analysis as to why this would be desirable), nothing he's posting here is a new idea, and frankly, in the past, when others have proposed such changes over time to the 777, he's dismissed them as still unable to compete with the A350X for various reaso ns (wasted crown space, older design, weight, etc.).
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
A300 American
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:49 pm

I can see it happening! 787 trickle down technologies to an aging 777 platform.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:51 pm

Oh, and if Boeing do go this route, the aircraft will surely be known as:

777-8 and 777-9.  Smile
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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ER757
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:53 pm

Once again, you've done excellent work Keesje - I loved the Ecoliner concept you posted and the artist's rendition of this aircraft is magnificent. Those wings are based on the 787 wing design, aren't they?
 
atomsareenough
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:56 pm

Interesting idea. I wonder how successfully they can balance the efficiency of the GENX with the power of the GE90.

Also, out of curiosity, would adding another 5 meters of length to the fuselage present any practical problems?

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):

Capasity

Not to nitpick, because I really do enjoy and appreciate your posts, but I just want to give you a heads-up because I've seen you consistently misspell this word. It's "capacity", with a C instead of an S.
 
757gb
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:56 pm



Quoting RussianJet (Reply 1):
That is one sweet looking aircraft - particularly like the graceful wingtips.

 checkmark 
Mouth-watering gorgeous... show that picture and that's half the motivation to build it right there!
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Rheinbote
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:56 pm



Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Based on Genx and GE90-115B engines. Overall pressure ratio 25:1

If the OPR is just 25, your project will not get very far.  Wink
I assume you mean a *compressor* OPR of 25. Overall pressure ratio should be 50 at least.
 
na
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:11 pm

Great looking concept drawing from Henry again, better than many manufacturer-issued ones.
 
keesje
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:13 pm

Henry Lam had some time left and made the 777NG artist impressions. http://www.kaktusdigital.com/. We have done some concepts since the A320 Enhanced Performance a few yrs back. ILFC proposed a -400 some time ago. Ikra I always name the artists unless I sketch something myself.



Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 13):
If the OPR is just 25, your project will not get very far

I meant a pressure ratio of 25 about 8% higher then GE90..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Rheinbote
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:17 pm



Quoting Keesje (Reply 15):
Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 13):
If the OPR is just 25, your project will not get very far

I meant a pressure ratio of 25 about 8% higher then GE90..

Again, that's the pressure ratio of the compressor only. State of the art in engine overall pressure ratio is 45-50.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:19 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
it might be a solid competitor to the A350-1000XWB

Well, it certainly would be wider than the airplane that markets itself as "extra wide body". The current B-777, and this B-777 is already wider than any version of the A-350.
 
PGNCS
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:23 pm

Keesje: A very good post, thank you! I have a question. What are the gate accomodation issues for a 258 foot long airplane? I am sure there are plenty of places they will work, conversely, there are plenty of places they won't. How restrictive is that, and has an analysis been done of airports that would either be unable to accomodate the aircraft, or would require significant modifications to do so? Obviously size has been an issue with the A-380 (and with other aircraft before that, e.g. the 747), but this aircraft would (Boeing would hope anyway) be more numerous and operated to more places than the typical VLA routes.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I am just wondering about this constraint to design. As an aside, if Boeing did go this route, it would seem to be the final nail in the coffin of the 747.
 
steeler83
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:25 pm



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
Boeing does need an airplane to replace the 744; if the 773ER is a great replacement for classic 747s, they need to come up with a twin to take over for the 744. And the 748 is clearly NOT it.

It looks like the end is near for the jumbo jet...

This is one sweet-looking aircraft! I'm sure that UA and DL will  biting  on this one!
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
wolbo
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:25 pm

Excellent work Keesje. Love to see your concepts and visualizations.  bigthumbsup 

Please ignore the bitter comments.
 
racko
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:34 pm

Wouldn't it need a 3rd MLG? Anyway, looks awesome.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:38 pm

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 18):
What are the gate accommodation issues for a 258 foot long airplane?

It should be fine as it will still fit in an 80mx80m box. Such a plane would be used for international ops and those gates are already sized for large aircraft (744/748//77W/A346/A388).

[Edited 2009-07-02 13:40:40]
 
na
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:52 pm



Quoting Keesje (Reply 15):
ILFC proposed a -400 some time ago.

I remember that, its some years ago. But didnt Boeing turn it down because, among other issues, the 773 is already at the upper end of how long the 777 could be stretched?
 
EA772LR
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:13 pm

Absolutely beautiful aircraft.  drool  I would like to see that nose replaced with the 787, with the 787 cockpit for added commonality across the families of 787/777.

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
Engines
Based on Genx and GE90-115B engines. Overall pressure ratio 25:1, Thrust at sea level: 125,000 lbf, Diameter fan :123 inch.

Only 123 inch fan? The current fan GE90-115B fan is 128 inches. How about 133 inch fan in order to keep a very high BPR. I know the GE90 core is scalable up to 150,000lbf.

All in all, and interesting and nice looking design.  thumbsup 
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
NCB
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:18 pm

Keesje is right that Boeing must come up with B777NG ASAP, no matter of how busy they are with other programs. The A350 threat is too big and the B777 will lose market share like snow melting to an August sun.

There is no future for the actual B777 in the post-2016 new airplanes market with any significant new orders unlikely after 2010.

I would go with a B774-sized airplane as base model and take a shrink to cover the A359 competition and a stretch to cover the B744 replacement market.

The engine should be a Trent XWB variant or a GEnx-based engine IMO, if possible open rotor, with the same cockpit as the 787.

There are things that I would love to see such as an all Ti-structure but it will not be achievable cost-wise until new Ti-production processes are developped which is not expected before at least 2015.

An all-Ti structure would make a very long stretch possible and significantly improve crash survivability (impact forces/fire resistance) winning as a result on passenger appeal. Maintenance and weight (by over 20%) will be reduced significantly compared to aluminium and composite structures, fatigue characteristics uncomparable. "Active wing" technology will become very easy to apply as each wing structure will be able to carry its own load unlike active wings that must remain attached in one piece to conserve strength.
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EPA001
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:24 pm



Quoting Wolbo (Reply 20):
Excellent work Keesje. Love to see your concepts and visualizations.

Yes it is. Thanks for this vision of which I think Boeing is pretty serious studying such a variant themselves. It would still be some years though before they would realize this plane since the B747-8 would be the first victim of your vision.  Smile
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:24 pm

Don't call me anti-B for saying this, but i think B would have to be careful by doing so, as airlines may perceive it as a warmed-over 777, à-la A350 first-generation (the warmed over A330).
By the time development comes, the A350XWB will have made progress, requiring a brand-new project from its competitor... History tends to repeat itself. Manufacturers should learn from their comptitors' mistakes.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
And the 748 is clearly NOT it.

Agreed.
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brons2
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:36 pm

I think they should make an ER and LR versions of these planes.

The LR at the weights mentioned, the ER at 699,000 lbs and a range of ~6500 nmi, choice of GE or RR power (no GE exclusivity under 700K lbs) and amazing CASM.
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RIX
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:44 pm



Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 27):
airlines may perceive it as a warmed-over 777, à-la A350 first-generation

- but there was nothing wrong with it per se, and it was quite a good/quick seller. The wrong thing about it was that it was the only Airbus answer to 787. Now, 777NG would be same wrong if there was no 787 at all. Plus, 777 is still bigger than 350 and can cover everything from current 340/777 market to 744 with no capacity loss (774). Although nobody said 350-1100 is impossible after 350-1000 is built, but, then, Boeing is waiting for what the latter will look like to decide on 777 upgrade/replacement...
 
na
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:48 pm



Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 27):
Don't call me anti-B for saying this, but i think B would have to be careful by doing so, as airlines may perceive it as a warmed-over 777, à-la A350 first-generation

I think so, too. Imho Boeing should wait at least another two to four years. This will allow them a) to watch how the A380 is doing, b) to see how the 748I sells after the crisis, c) to have a chance to judge how good the A350 will be, d) how much the 777 will lose against all those.
If by 2012/13 the 748I does not become the moderate success Boeing hopes for, and the 777 sales drop steeply as can be expected, then the ONLY choice for Boeing must be the development of a joint all-new 777/747(pax) replacement, an aircraft which should be of approx. 77W size or slightly larger as the basic type (but wider than the 777), and a stretched version of about 748I size with the possibility of an even slightly larger model and, if needed, even a shorter version of a size halfway between 772 and 77W. Such aircraft could debut in 2017/18.
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:52 pm



Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 27):
By the time development comes, the A350XWB will have made progress, requiring a brand-new project from its competitor... History tends to repeat itself. Manufacturers should learn from their comptitors' mistakes.

One thing Boeing has learned is that CFRP has its limits. The 350 may not be able to overcome the limitations any more than the 787 can.

Metal alloys are proven, predictable and reliable. Rather than being a setback, all metal might help sales. I bet there are more than a few airlines who are wishing that the 350 mk1 was on the market.
What the...?
 
panam92
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:57 pm

I think Boeing should have worked on a NG 777 and put the 747 to sleep. The twin engine planes seem to be the way the market is going. Living near JFK airport you see more airlines flying A330 or 777
 
RIX
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:58 pm



Quoting NA (Reply 30):
This will allow them a) to watch how the A380 is doing, b) to see how the 748I sells after the crisis, c) to have a chance to judge how good the A350 will be, d) how much the 777 will lose against all those.

- I'd also add, e) get some initial experience from 787operations to know "how composite" whatever they build next is going to be.
 
trystero
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:00 pm

Bigger, longer and uncut!!!
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BMIFlyer
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:05 pm

I like it Big grin

Not really much more I can say  bigthumbsup 


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PlanesNTrains
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:38 pm



Quoting PanAm92 (Reply 32):
I think Boeing should have worked on a NG 777 and put the 747 to sleep. The twin engine planes seem to be the way the market is going. Living near JFK airport you see more airlines flying A330 or 777

Perhaps, but the strength of the 747-8 project has been in the freighter sales. The passenger version is almost like an add-on to an existing program, so a lower risk, lower cost option than a clean sheet design, and probably preferable to a 777NG at a time when the "original" 777 was enjoying profound success.

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gilesdavies
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:54 pm

If a 777-400NG stretch is offered, would it not be then treading on the feet of the 747-800???

Both aircrafts would then have a similar capacity and be aimed at similar markets... It is happens it will be great!
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:04 pm



Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 37):
If a 777-400NG stretch is offered, would it not be then treading on the feet of the 747-800???

A 777-400 would pretty much ensure the 747-8 dies a lonely death. Therefore, I'm of the opinion that it would require a not-insignificant commitment from a number of major carriers to make it happen. I'm talking a score each from carriers including EK, SQ, BA, CX, JL and NH. Heck, it probably need ALL of them considering one "prestige" carrier so far has not been enough to launch the 747-8 (LH) or A350-1000XWB (EK) into sales stardom.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:31 pm



Quoting Stitch (Reply 38):
A 777-400 would pretty much ensure the 747-8 dies a lonely death. Therefore, I'm of the opinion that it would require a not-insignificant commitment from a number of major carriers to make it happen. I'm talking a score each from carriers including EK, SQ, BA, CX, JL and NH. Heck, it probably need ALL of them considering one "prestige" carrier so far has not been enough to launch the 747-8 (LH) or A350-1000XWB (EK) into sales stardom.

This is why any 777-9 would not be 420 seats 3-class.

Currently, the 77W is 365 (nominal), and a stretch to 420 (using 9Y as Keesje) believes is too long anyway.

390-400 seats is where any stretch would go. Basically, two small plugs ala the 748, and a switch to 10Y seating as standard.

A 777-8, between the lengths of the 772 and 773, would be about 340 seats at 10Y.

I believe airlines are happy with their long range fleet between 300 and 400 seats. Nobody seems to be clamoring for VLA (400+) seat aircraft despite their lower CASM...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
dl767captain
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:55 pm

This seems way more likely than an entirely new 777 sized plane. It may hurt the 748i but there isn't really much to hurt. I really like the pictures and think it makes a lot of sense, it allows boing to use the same production facilities and get a lot out of just a little investment.
 
EA772LR
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:38 am



Quoting NCB (Reply 25):
Keesje is right that Boeing must come up with B777NG ASAP, no matter of how busy they are with other programs. The A350 threat is too big and the B777 will lose market share like snow melting to an August sun.

Huh? The A330 hasn't lost market share yet to the 787. The same can be said about the 777 vs. A350, particularly the -1000, which is what this 777-400NG is designed to compete with. Boeing is in a good way right now with the 77W. If I were Boeing I'd be investing more in getting the 787-8/9/3 right, then push for an 8,000nm 787-10, one that can truly compete with the A359.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 38):
Therefore, I'm of the opinion that it would require a not-insignificant commitment from a number of major carriers to make it happen. I'm talking a score each from carriers including EK, SQ, BA, CX, JL and NH. Heck, it probably need ALL of them considering one "prestige" carrier so far has not been enough to launch the 747-8 (LH) or A350-1000XWB (EK) into sales stardom.

I think if Boeing were to launch something similar to what Keesje is proposing above, EK, CX, BA, and possibly even LH, amongst many others would probably leap on that plane. It would have the range of the 77W or better, superb payload, and RASM/CASM figures. A new wing, and MLG would be needed, which may be too expensive.
We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
 
United Airline
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Fri Jul 03, 2009 1:19 am

What about the Y2?

I mean the double decker which is going to replace the B 747/777
 
thegeek
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:12 am

This will never happen. Boeing has bigger fish to fry with the 787. A higher MTOW 777 would also require a new landing gear, and by the time it enters the market, it's life is likely to be short if competing with the A350XWB & 787.

Of course, if we could go back 5 years and stretch the 777 instead of the 747, while applying engines with 15% better SFC, it might have been worth it.
 
keesje
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:35 am

The 777-300ER/NG is bigger then the future A350-1000. This 777-300NG/-400NG would be positioned in a bigger segment, 365-420 seats, rather then up to 350 seats such as the A350XWB.

The engines have slightly higher diameter, the wing is new. For the rest commonality with the 777-300ER/200LR should be significant.

The range of the 400NG would be 5500nm. Capacity for range..

Realistic seatcounts: Singapore Airlines seats has 278 seats in their Boeing 777-300ER, Cathay about 300 ANA 280 ?

Those carriers could add seats, bars, showers etc like in the A380s. E.g. SQ and ANA 777-400NG: 305 seats and Cathay 330 in premium longhaul configurations.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:30 am

I Feel Boeing will concentrate on the B787 instead.
regds
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thegeek
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:20 am



Quoting Keesje (Reply 44):

The range of the 400NG would be 5500nm. Capacity for range..

So MTOW is the same. Then what do you need the new wing for? I understand that the 77W/L wing is quite efficient already. History hasn't looked kindly on planes which trade range for payload: e.g. 773A vs 77E, 739A vs 738. Even the A332 outsells the A333 for reasons which don't seem too obvious to me. The only exception I can think of is the 747 vs 747SP, but that doesn't really count.

The only way this would work for me is the SFC is improved to the level of the 787, and therefore the fuel tanks don't need to be as big.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:03 pm



Quoting United Airline (Reply 42):
What about the Y2?

That's called the 787.  Smile

Y3 is the 777/747 replacement study member of the Yellowstone program.
 
keesje
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RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:59 am



Quoting Thegeek (Reply 46):
So MTOW is the same. Then what do you need the new wing for?

The wing / wingbox are lighter and more efficient. So OEW for payload & less fuel..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 4944
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: Boeing 777-400NG Stretch, New Wing, Engine

Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:13 pm



Quoting Keesje (Reply 44):
Singapore Airlines seats has 278 seats in their Boeing 777-300ER

and weighs in at about 383K pounds +- passenger ready. A healthy amount of additional weight for only 278 seats.

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