a380900
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Is The A380 Using As Much Fuel As A 747 1st Gen

Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:53 am

In other words, how much has engine technology improved? Did it take as much fuel to carry a 747 across the Atlantic as it does an A380?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Is The A380 Using As Much Fuel As A 747 1st Gen

Sun Dec 13, 2009 4:22 am

As I recall the 380 uses way less fuel than a 747-100/200. Compared to the 747-400, I'm not sure, but even if they are on par that means the 380 "wins" due to higher payload.
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astuteman
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RE: Is The A380 Using As Much Fuel As A 747 1st Gen

Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:54 pm



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 1):
As I recall the 380 uses way less fuel than a 747-100/200. Compared to the 747-400, I'm not sure, but even if they are on par that means the 380 "wins" due to higher payload.

It's fairly widely believed that typical A380's in service today are using 7%-8% more fuel than a 744.
I would think that would result in lower fuel burn than a 747-100/200, but I don't know.

Rgds
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Is The A380 Using As Much Fuel As A 747 1st Gen

Thu Dec 17, 2009 6:28 am



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 2):
It's fairly widely believed that typical A380's in service today are using 7%-8% more fuel than a 744.

Can't be bothered to look up the exact numbers, but AFAIK the 380 has more than 8% more payload than a 744 so it "wins". Correct me if I'm wrong here.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
astuteman
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RE: Is The A380 Using As Much Fuel As A 747 1st Gen

Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:36 pm



Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 3):
Can't be bothered to look up the exact numbers, but AFAIK the 380 has more than 8% more payload than a 744 so it "wins". Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Depends on what the payload is.

In pure weight terms, the A380 carries about 186k lb compared to 154k lb for the 744 - an increase of 21%.

But in passenger capacity terms, the A380's cabin is 49% bigger than the A380's.
Of course when both are configured 10-across, the seats on the A380 will be bigger.

So you could argue that it can carry, say, 40% more passengers in a similar configuration to the 744, but with the A380 passengers having 9% more space each.

So 21% more weight, or 40% more pax, each with 10% more space.
For c. 8% fuel burn delta (soon to drop by another 2% of course..  Smile )

Sounds like a reasonable return  biggrin 

And that analysis doesn't consider the A380's much greater range capability.
Past 6 000Nm air range, the payloads skew considerably towards the A380.

At 7 500Nm air range for example, the base A380 carries about 145k lb vs about 66k lb for the 744.
The "2012" spec A380 will increase that payload at 7 500Nm air range to about 160k lb, about 2.4X the 744..

Rgds
 
David L
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RE: Is The A380 Using As Much Fuel As A 747 1st Gen

Thu Dec 17, 2009 8:42 pm



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 4):
the A380's cabin is 49% bigger than the A380's.

"I'm no expert but..." I'm pretty sure they're identical.  duck 
 
lowrider
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RE: Is The A380 Using As Much Fuel As A 747 1st Gen

Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:05 pm

I have no idea what the A380 burn numbers are like, but very rough rule of thumb rules for the 74 classic (used to do a reasonableness check on the planned numbers) is approx 30k lbs of fuel for each hour of flight. Some hours burn you burn more than others, and this number also factors in typical holding and reserve fuel, but the A380 would need that too. So on a planned 7 hour flight, I would look for about 210k lbs on the release. Anything different would be cause for investigation.
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astuteman
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RE: Is The A380 Using As Much Fuel As A 747 1st Gen

Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:40 am



Quoting David L (Reply 5):
"I'm no expert but..." I'm pretty sure they're identical.

Bugga!  biggrin 

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 6):
very rough rule of thumb rules for the 74 classic (used to do a reasonableness check on the planned numbers) is approx 30k lbs of fuel for each hour of flight

In this thread, Zeke has quoted c. 14t per hour, which pretty much aligns to your numbers
London To New York A380 Fuel Costs (by BAfan Dec 10 2009 in Tech Ops)

The A380 burns about 10t-12t per hour typically

Quoting Lowrider (Reply 6):
So on a planned 7 hour flight, I would look for about 210k lbs on the release

That's a LOT of fuel for a 7 hour flight  faint 

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lowrider
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RE: Is The A380 Using As Much Fuel As A 747 1st Gen

Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:19 am



Quoting Astuteman (Reply 7):
In this thread, Zeke has quoted c. 14t per hour, which pretty much aligns to your numbers

Depending on which engines you have, that seems quite reasonable.

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 7):
That's a LOT of fuel for a 7 hour flight

That doesn't even fill the wing tanks. That old girl can love you long time.
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