AT
Topic Author
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Engine Start Up At Gate

Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:59 am

I've been on a couple of international fights recently (777 and A330) where engine start up has been initiated while we are still at the gate before pushback. Is this something new? I always use to recall being pushed back by the tug and then gradually the engines would be started (the occasional DC9 reverse thrust push back excepted).

I noticed this most recently at both JFK and DXB. Does the distance of the aircraft from the actual terminal have anything to do in determining this?
 
mpdpilot
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RE: Engine Start Up At Gate

Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:04 am



Quoting AT (Thread starter):
I noticed this most recently at both JFK and DXB. Does the distance of the aircraft from the actual terminal have anything to do in determining this?

A lot of this can have to do with the operations of the airport. At LAX for example they have start up points for aircraft parked a Tom Bradley.

Sometimes I can imagine if they are trying to get the aircraft out of the gate and then out of an alley they might start up sooner to minimize the time the aircraft is not moving.

Perhaps someone can speak to JFK and DXB.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
Mir
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RE: Engine Start Up At Gate

Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:08 am

The most common reason to do that is an inoperative APU requiring an air cart to start, but ETOPS on a twin requires an operative APU, so if you were doing any oceanic flying I would doubt that that's why they did it. I can't think of anything else that would mandate starting at the gate, but there's nothing wrong with doing it like that if you don't mind burning the extra fuel.

-Mir
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rscaife1682
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RE: Engine Start Up At Gate

Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:08 am

They might have been an air start as the a/c had no GPU???????


RYAN
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777fan
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RE: Engine Start Up At Gate

Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:19 am

I have some childhood memories of Midway Airlines' DC-9s starting up at the gate, initiating reversers, and pushing themselves back for taxi (pre-MDW renovation, naturally).


777fan
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HAL
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RE: Engine Start Up At Gate

Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:30 am

You can still go ETOPS with the pneumatic portion of the APU inop, as long as the electrical functions are OK. Usually it's a valve problem that prevents the APU from being used for air. The APU is still there as a backup generator though, which is the primary reason to have the APU for ETOPS. I have flown several trips over the years where we had to use the ground cart for start, but were good to go for a trans-Pacific flight.

HAL
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ADXMatt
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RE: Engine Start Up At Gate

Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:15 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
The most common reason to do that is an inoperative APU requiring an air cart to start, but ETOPS on a twin requires an operative APU,

The APU is not required for ETOPS on all A/C types.

B757 reduces ETOPS to 120 with APU inop
B777 no Polar ops with APU inop.

Most likely needed an airstart.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Engine Start Up At Gate

Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:39 am

If there is adequate clearence around the gate/bay & in case APU INOP.The start can be initiated on the gate/bay itself.
regds
MEL.
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Drfix2fly
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RE: Engine Start Up At Gate

Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:45 am



Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
The most common reason to do that is an inoperative APU requiring an air cart to start, but ETOPS on a twin requires an operative APU, so if you were doing any oceanic flying I would doubt that that's why they did it. I can't think of anything else that would mandate starting at the gate, but there's nothing wrong with doing it like that if you don't mind burning the extra fuel.

-Mir

Depends on the Aircraft but most ETOPS aircraft I have worked the APU can be inop but the aircraft is limited to under 120 ETOPS
 
A333TS
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RE: Engine Start Up At Gate

Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:48 pm

Would it be possible that the due to busy time at JFK, tower did not want to create traffic on the tarmac and thus requested the pilot to start the engines at the gate? That way the plane can be on the way as soon as the tag is clear?
Just a thought, would be nice to hear from the pilot or tower operators if that is possible or has been done before?


A333TS

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