flymatt2bermud
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FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:15 pm

We fly at Flight Level 510 when it is operationally reasonable. Some like the idea others hate it. What is your opinion? This quick clip shows some instrument readings at FL510. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQXJdacySRg
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
FX772LRF
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:30 pm

I think it's a good idea as long as it is efficient. When operating at FL510 drops below being more efficient than being at say, FL400, then I think it becomes a pointless practice. Also, as exhibited in the video, I think it'd be best to have highly-experienced pilots operating the aircraft seeing as how an operating mistake could send you straight into a stall.

All in all, I like the idea of cruising at FL510.

Side note - is that you in the video?

-Noah  wave 
Cleared to IAH via CLL 076 radial/BAZBL/RIICE3, up to 3k, 7k in 10, departure on 134.3, squawk 4676, Colgan 9581.
 
flymatt2bermud
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:41 pm



Quoting FX772LRF (Reply 1):
is that you in the video?

Yep, this was obviously unrehearsed, my son manned the camera! We can only get to FL510 when we have about 3:00 to 2:30 in fuel remaining and the ISA is colder than -3C. Specific range is high and the fuel burn very low, the noise level a nice quite level too. As long as the air is stable, no thunderstorms in close vicinity we consider going to FL510 with the object being to reduce our operational costs.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
keta
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:02 pm

Cool video! That's pretty much the highest you can get nowadays, no? Unless you contact Richard Branson, right 

Makes for a good idea of the magnitude of the coffin corner, too. I would love to see more and have more details!
Where there's a will, there's a way
 
flymatt2bermud
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:22 pm



Quoting Keta (Reply 3):
Makes for a good idea of the magnitude of the coffin corner, too

Consider too, that with the stall speed at 162 KIAS, the stall protection system will activate prior to reaching stall speed so that makes the margin a little tighter.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
KELPkid
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:02 am



Quoting Keta (Reply 3):
That's pretty much the highest you can get nowadays, no? Unless you contact Richard Branson, right

Well, if you're young enough, you could try and become a US Air Force pilot and sign up for the U-2, FL800 (and above)!  Wow!
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
eaa3
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:26 am



Quoting FlyMatt2Bermud (Thread starter):
We fly at Flight Level 510 when it is operationally reasonable. Some like the idea others hate it. What is your opinion? This quick clip shows some instrument readings at FL510. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQXJd...cySRg

Why did the copilot have a mask on. Also: Is there less turbulence at that altitude then at 30-40,000 ft.

When flying at 510 you can probably get a more direct route then otherwise.
 
KELPkid
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:47 am



Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 6):
Why did the copilot have a mask on

FL510, time of useful consciousness if a rapid decompression occurs: 6-9 seconds.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
corey07850
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:19 am

To be honest I don't think I've ever seen our Globals over 490. I'm not sure exactly why but there's generally not that much of an advantage cruising up there. 450+ does the trick most of the time.

BTW next time you guys are at the BDL service center, come upstairs and say hi
 
PGNCS
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:33 am



Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 6):
Why did the copilot have a mask on.

Someone needs to be on oxygen all the time above FL 410 due to extremely short time of useful consciousness considerations. Below is the FAR 91 information for those interested.

I have been there courtesy of the USAF and have no desire to go up there on anything that isn't rocket powered. Engine margins are often quite small, aircraft performance margins are critical, sitting for hours with an oxygen mask on is very unpleasant, and, finally, no aircraft that my company operates go that high. It wouldn't make sense to design most airliners to be strong enough to have adequate fatigue characteristics to climb that high when very little time would be spent up there (you would be unlikely to be light enough to get that high until very late in the cruise phase of flight).

I am delighted that many corporate aircraft can go that high as it gets them more direct routings and takes them out of our way (until top of descent, anyway); everything that can be done for congestion is good. I don't want to be the one going up there though.

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/a...n_education/media/ac%2061-107a.pdf

(3) Title 14 CFR section 91.211(b) requires pressurized aircraft to have at least a 10-minute additional supply of supplemental oxygen for each occupant at flight altitudes above FL 250 in the event of a decompression. At flight altitudes above FL 350, one pilot at the controls of the airplane must wear and use an oxygen mask that is secured and sealed. The oxygen mask must supply oxygen at all times or must automatically supply oxygen when the cabin pressure altitude of the airplane exceeds 14,000 feet MSL. An exception to this regulation exists for two-pilot crews that operate at or below FL 410. One pilot does not need to wear and use an oxygen mask if both pilots are at the controls and each pilot has a quick donning type of oxygen mask that can be placed on the face with one hand from the ready position and be properly secured, sealed, and operational within 5 seconds. If one pilot of a two-pilot crew is away from the controls, then the pilot that is at the controls must wear and use an oxygen mask that is secured and sealed.
 
dw747400
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:39 am



Quoting FlyMatt2Bermud (Thread starter):
Some like the idea others hate it. What is your opinion?

I think one of the biggest detractors is pilots who don't want to deal with the oxygen requirements.
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:52 am

I really want to know how you pick who gets to put up with the mask for hours....

Rock, paper, scissors?

Heads, Tail?

 

I've been in the FAA altitude chamber in OKC. I think every pilot should go there. It's a great learning experience. yes 
 
DashTrash
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:16 am

I've been to 510 twice in a Citation X. After 470, the airplane will no longer accelerate without descending. The best mach number I've been able to carry up that high has been .82. With that low mach number, the lesser fuel flow didn't make up for the loss in airspeed. The airplane is much efficient at 410-450.

You also can't get there under most conditions. Economy wise, if you want to put the longest legs possible on the airplane, climb to 410, then FLCH at .80 and eventually it will be at 510 as fuel burns off.
 
njxc500
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:35 am



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 9):
One pilot does not need to wear and use an oxygen mask if both pilots are at the controls and each pilot has a quick donning type of oxygen mask that can be placed on the face with one hand from the ready position and be properly secured, sealed, and operational within 5 seconds.

It appears many globals are equipped with a EROS MC20 quick donning mask. Does this mean that the other pilot would not normally be wearing a mask? Maybe the video filming is the same as the captain not being present?

Nick
 
flymatt2bermud
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:46 am



Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 6):
Why did the copilot have a mask on.

It meets the regulatory requirements!

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 11):

Rock, paper, scissors?

Good to be the aircraft commander on a two Captain ship!!!!

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 12):
After 470, the airplane will no longer accelerate without descending.

You are exactly correct. If we can't climb at Mach .80 then there is absolutely no reason to continue. In our aircraft (BD700) if you climb to high altitude under Mach .80 your aircraft will not accelerate and you will more than likely decelerate after the engines revert from Climb to Cruise mode. However, when conditions are ideal it is nice to be at FL510.

Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 6):
I am delighted that many corporate aircraft can go that high as it gets them more direct routings and takes them out of our way (until top of descent, anyway)

Yeah, we don't really get as many Direct To clearances as we expected, but you can count on flying to the entry point on the STAR (Standard Terminal Arrival) and plan your descent from there.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
njxc500
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:55 am



Quoting FlyMatt2Bermud (Reply 14):
In our aircraft (BD700) if you climb to high altitude under Mach .80 your aircraft will not accelerate and you will more than likely decelerate after the engines revert from Climb to Cruise mode.

I've heard the Global 5000 has better performance up to the ceiling, do you have any knowledge of this.
 
flymatt2bermud
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:05 am



Quoting Njxc500 (Reply 15):

I've heard the Global 5000 has better performance up to the ceiling, do you have any knowledge of this

You heard the Paper, Scissors, Rock theory? When it comes to climb performance it is ALL about weight and temperature. Bombardier 'target wise' hoped to hold the Basic Empty Weight down on the 5000 compared to the XRS. For some reason the scales did not oblige. Typically the 5000's are only 1,000 lbs lighter or so empty than the XRS's. However, I can tell you, full fuel for a 5,000 mile trip we can go straight to FL450. Ideally we run a long range cruise for the first 2 hours then you can take it to FL470 and run Mach. .85 which is nearly as efficient if not more as Long Range Cruise..
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
PGNCS
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:00 am



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 10):
I think one of the biggest detractors is pilots who don't want to deal with the oxygen requirements.

Have you ever sat in the seat with one on for four or five hours? Once you have, you'll know why it's highly unpopular.

Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 11):
I really want to know how you pick who gets to put up with the mask for hours....

Rock, paper, scissors?

Heads, Tail?

Seniority!  

In all seriousness, in high altitude operations the pilots will normally alternate with each other as it is extremely uncomfortable and quite fatiguing.

Quoting Njxc500 (Reply 13):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 9):
One pilot does not need to wear and use an oxygen mask if both pilots are at the controls and each pilot has a quick donning type of oxygen mask that can be placed on the face with one hand from the ready position and be properly secured, sealed, and operational within 5 seconds.

It appears many globals are equipped with a EROS MC20 quick donning mask. Does this mean that the other pilot would not normally be wearing a mask? Maybe the video filming is the same as the captain not being present?

No. When above FL410, one pilot must be on oxygen at all times, regardless of what type of masks are installed. At FL410 and below as long as both pilots are in their control seats nobody has to be on oxygen as long as the aircraft is equipped with compliant quick donning masks.

Quoting FlyMatt2Bermud (Reply 14):
Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 6):
Why did the copilot have a mask on.

It meets the regulatory requirements!

 checkmark 
 
eaa3
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:49 pm



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 17):
No. When above FL410, one pilot must be on oxygen at all times, regardless of what type of masks are installed. At FL410 and below as long as both pilots are in their control seats nobody has to be on oxygen as long as the aircraft is equipped with compliant quick donning masks.

I wonder. The A380 is approved for flight up to FL430. So in that case the pilots will need to wear masks.
 
PGNCS
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:33 pm



Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 18):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 17):
No. When above FL410, one pilot must be on oxygen at all times, regardless of what type of masks are installed. At FL410 and below as long as both pilots are in their control seats nobody has to be on oxygen as long as the aircraft is equipped with compliant quick donning masks.

I wonder. The A380 is approved for flight up to FL430. So in that case the pilots will need to wear masks.

Well so are the 767 and 747 (which can go even higher) among others, but if the aircraft is even modestly loeded it will very rarely be able to get up that high, and even then only at the very end of the cruise phase of flight. I would be surprised if the A-380 would be able to get up to FL430 very early on a typical leg. It's a fairly self-limiting problem in reality, as the time you can spend up there is normally relatively brief in most commercial airliners, unlike many military and corporate aircraft.
 
dw747400
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:31 pm



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 17):
Once you have, you'll know why it's highly unpopular.


I've worn a mask long enough to know why its unpopular, hence the comment! I'm not judging anyone for not wanting to do it... in fact, I sometimes wonder why a crew wants FL490 or FL510 when a lower altitude offers nearly the same economy.
CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
 
PGNCS
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:17 pm



Quoting Dw747400 (Reply 20):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 17):
Once you have, you'll know why it's highly unpopular.


I've worn a mask long enough to know why its unpopular, hence the comment!

Well it seems we agree 100%!  
 
KELPkid
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:57 pm



Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 18):
I wonder. The A380 is approved for flight up to FL430. So in that case the pilots will need to wear masks.

Not necessarily. As I understand things, many civil aviation authorities around the world aren't nearly as restrictive on this as the FAA on this (for example, they would consider just having a pilot within arm's reach of a quick-donning O2 mask adequate...). As far as I know, no A380 yet produced has worn an N-number  
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
aviopic
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:00 pm

There is one con missing, Radiation.
From FL200 upwards the radiation(the whole spectrum) doubles every 2000ft or so, probably no problem for the occasional passenger but it might be something to think about for the daily driver.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
413X3
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:04 pm

I would like to see more videos of the outside when flying that high, it would be nice to see what the view looks like from up there in the 50s
 
PGNCS
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:57 pm



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 22):
Quoting Eaa3 (Reply 18):
I wonder. The A380 is approved for flight up to FL430. So in that case the pilots will need to wear masks.

Not necessarily. As I understand things, many civil aviation authorities around the world aren't nearly as restrictive on this as the FAA on this

Fair enough. Other countries do have differing regulations, and I was discussing the US FAR's. If you can find other regulations that allow it, I have no problem whatsoever deferring to that and amending my answer.

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 23):
There is one con missing, Radiation

That is an EXCELLENT point, Aviopic. I studied radiochemistry, and I can clearly recall a professor saying offhandedly something to the effect that "longhaul pilots and flight attendants are the radiation workers of today" (as opposed to radiation protection for personnel working at a commercial nuclear reactor, which was the context for the preceding discussion).
 
flymatt2bermud
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:27 am



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 25):
"longhaul pilots and flight attendants are the radiation workers of today"

So let's go further on the subject of radiation. I would really appreciate some insight here!!
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
flymatt2bermud
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:29 am

I would agree to wear a radiation tab monitor to collect data on this.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
Aeroflot001
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:16 am



Quoting KELPkid (Reply 7):
FL510, time of useful consciousness if a rapid decompression occurs: 6-9 seconds.

Please Pardon my ignorance with this question but i want to be sure. I understand that when a decompression takes place all the air is sucked or blown out of the cabin. However Im sure most humans are capable of holding their breath for 30 sec to a minute. Why is it that you will knock out in less than 10 sec. Is the air actually sucked out of your lungs as well?
 
DashTrash
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:25 am



Quoting Aeroflot001 (Reply 28):
Please Pardon my ignorance with this question but i want to be sure. I understand that when a decompression takes place all the air is sucked or blown out of the cabin. However Im sure most humans are capable of holding their breath for 30 sec to a minute. Why is it that you will knock out in less than 10 sec. Is the air actually sucked out of your lungs as well?

Yeah, you'd have the wind knocked out of you.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:46 am



Quoting Aeroflot001 (Reply 28):
Why is it that you will knock out in less than 10 sec. Is the air actually sucked out of your lungs as well?

Your lungs are only capable of withstanding *very* small differential pressures. If you try to hold your breath during a high-altitude decompression, you could severely damage your lungs.

Tom.
 
rwessel
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:19 am



Quoting Aviopic (Reply 23):
There is one con missing, Radiation.
From FL200 upwards the radiation(the whole spectrum) doubles every 2000ft or so, probably no problem for the occasional passenger but it might be something to think about for the daily driver.

That's not true. And in fact is clearly impossible. At 20,000ft, radiation exposure is about 1 uSv/h. If it doubled ever 2000ft past there, an SR-71 or U-2 pilot at 80,000ft would get a lethal does in five minutes (and no, there isn't enough shielding on either of those aircraft to make any difference at those levels). Even at 50,000ft, you'd reach the US *annual* limit (50 mSv) for radiation worker exposure in about 90 minutes.

But at ground level, cosmic radiation exposure is about .05 uSv/h. At 20,000ft it's about 1 uSv/h, and it increases to about 10 uSv/h at the top of the atmosphere (note: it's higher near the poles, or if you start getting into the Van Allen belts). And going from 40,000 to 50,000ft gets you about a 50% bump in exposure (and then you've gotten to about 80% of the maximum anyway).

Radiation exposure in this context is largely a function of how much mass is between you and the source. That would be the atmosphere in this case, and by the time you’ve reached 20,000ft, you’re already above more than half of it

http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/info/RadHaz.html
 
aviopic
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:45 am



Quoting Rwessel (Reply 31):
That's not true.

I am no expert in this area.
My info came from a 74 Captain who based himself on a study recently carried out in Germany.
Thought he would know what he is talking about but you might be right though.

On the other hand if a professor has the same feelings who am I to argue ?

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 25):
That is an EXCELLENT point, Aviopic. I studied radiochemistry, and I can clearly recall a professor saying offhandedly something to the effect that "longhaul pilots and flight attendants are the radiation workers of today" (as opposed to radiation protection for personnel working at a commercial nuclear reactor, which was the context for the preceding discussion).

The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
PGNCS
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:58 pm



Quoting Aviopic (Reply 32):
Quoting Rwessel (Reply 31):
That's not true.

I am no expert in this area.
My info came from a 74 Captain who based himself on a study recently carried out in Germany.
Thought he would know what he is talking about but you might be right though.

On the other hand if a professor has the same feelings who am I to argue ?

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 25):
That is an EXCELLENT point, Aviopic. I studied radiochemistry, and I can clearly recall a professor saying offhandedly something to the effect that "longhaul pilots and flight attendants are the radiation workers of today" (as opposed to radiation protection for personnel working at a commercial nuclear reactor, which was the context for the preceding discussion).

Actually, I agree with Rwessel that the numbers you posted in Reply 23 are too high, and I should have been more careful in my response. I didn't understand Rwessel to be saying there is no radiation hazard, rather that the schedule of radiation v. altitude you gave is incorrect. I do think there is evidence for long term cumulative radiation exposure hazards for flightcrews, and longhaul, high altitude, polar flying is the quickest method of increasing your effective dose.
 
413X3
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:52 pm

I remember hearing about a study done by Fedex with pilots volunteering to wear a radiation meter and they didn't find any significant numbers.
 
KELPkid
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:02 pm



Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 34):



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 36):

What do ETOPS issues and Thales pitot tubes have to do with flying up to FL510?  
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
Aeroflot001
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:57 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 29):
Yeah, you'd have the wind knocked out of you.
Quoting DashTrash (Reply 29):
Your lungs are only capable of withstanding *very* small differential pressures. If you try to hold your breath during a high-altitude decompression, you could severely damage your lungs.

Tom.

Thankyou both for your input. Should a decomp happen at this altitude god forbid would the copilot be able to get the plane down quick enough to save the passengers?
 
flymatt2bermud
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:01 am

The aircraft certification process takes into consideration the time for the aircraft to descend under Emergency conditions to15,000 msl which is considered to be a safe altitude for most people to breath. The certification takes into consideration TSU (Time of Safe Unconsciousness) which is applied to passengers who hypothetically are not able to don an emergency mask. The idea is keep one of the pilots conscious so they can get the aircraft to a safe (breathable) altitude in minimum time. Autodescent is also an option on some aircraft.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
User avatar
cpd
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:44 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 25):
Aviopic. I studied radiochemistry, and I can clearly recall a professor saying offhandedly something to the effect that "longhaul pilots and flight attendants are the radiation workers of today"

Concorde (whose crews didn't have to wear the mask above FL410) had a device to measure radiation, and if it went into a particular zone on the dial, they would descend.

Concorde could also descend very, very fast if needed.
 
flymatt2bermud
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:00 am

Quoting cpd (Reply 38):
Concorde could also descend very, very fast if needed.

Awesome! I wish I could get one of those radiation measuring devices.
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
DashTrash
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:50 am

Quoting Aeroflot001 (Reply 36):
Thankyou both for your input. Should a decomp happen at this altitude god forbid would the copilot be able to get the plane down quick enough to save the passengers?

I really don't know. Those masks are only rated to 40,000 ft cabin altitude. With a rapid decompression, I think there is a chance the guy on the mask could get the airplane down. With an explosive decompression, I doubt it.

Interesting tidbit, the X has an emergency descent mode. If cabin altitude goes above 15000 with the airplane above 30,000 and the autopilot on, the airplane will make a 90 degree turn and descend at Mmo / Vmo until it gets to (I think) 15,000.

The memory item for a rapid D is to don your oxygen mask and select emer (forces air into your lungs). My opinion was that you should go to idle power and get the spoilers out. You'll regain consciousness while the autopilot is saving your life in EDM. The X doesn't have autothrottles, so without pilot intervention, EDM is basically worthless.

I've posted these before, but:

Just leveling off. Note how much room is between stall and overspeed.


View out the front at 510.
 
aviopic
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:44 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 33):
I do think there is evidence for long term cumulative radiation exposure hazards for flightcrews, and longhaul, high altitude, polar flying is the quickest method of increasing your effective dose.

I will try to get some new data on this.
According the B74 Captain new insights are a lot worse then it was previous believed to be.

Quoting 413X3 (Reply 34):
I remember hearing about a study done by Fedex with pilots volunteering to wear a radiation meter and they didn't find any significant numbers.

What kind of radiation were they looking for ?
Radiation comes in many forms.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
2H4
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:31 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 40):
rapid D

If I ever become a famous rapper, that's going to be my stage name.
Intentionally Left Blank
 
flymatt2bermud
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:47 am

Can anyone elaborate on more radiation specifics?
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
brons2
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:45 am

awesome pic dash trash, at FL510 you are way, way above the clouds!!
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jambrain
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:13 am

Quoting 413X3 (Reply 24):
I would like to see more videos of the outside when flying that high, it would be nice to see what the view looks like from up there in the 50s

See James May (from BBC top gear) at FL71 in a U2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6cZLfK4Zjk#t=6m10s
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cpd
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:34 pm

Quoting FlyMatt2Bermud (Reply 39):

Awesome! I wish I could get one of those radiation measuring devices.

I remember a report that stated that the gauges' reading was greatly over-estimated. But in any case, a good safety measure to have from the days when this kind of thing was probably less well understood.

Solar radiation was the major worry I think, the sort of thing you hear about on the news from time-to-time.
 
nomadd22
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:47 pm

Unless you're flying above FL20,000, or over the poles there's not that much to worry about radiation wise. Most non emf solar is blocked by the Van Allen belts. There's minimal x-ray and the occasional energetic alpha particle but the ISS shifts run 6 months and NASA uses the same accumulated radiation standards industry does.
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flymatt2bermud
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:02 pm

Thanks for the link and info Rwessel!
"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward" Leonardo Da Vinci
 
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cpd
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RE: FL510 Pros Vs Cons?

Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:14 am

Quoting Nomadd22 (Reply 47):
Unless you're flying above FL20,000, or over the poles there's not that much to worry about radiation wise.

Back when Concorde was being designed, I'm pretty certain radiation was far from an exact science - and there were all sorts of funny myths and practices happening at the time. So I guess this was the precaution they took.

These days, we know better.  

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