c5load
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A/C Systems And Accidents Causes

Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:24 am

I honestly didn't know how to word the title any better for the things I need to know. I am doing a research paper on flight deck technologies that have come about and need to know if there have been any crashes/mishaps directly attributed (as in not working or failed to signal the pilot) to any of the following:
1. Autopilot (General)
2. Ice Protection Systems
3. WX Radar
4. Windshear
5. GPWS
6. TCAS
Any info would really help me in writing my paper. Thanks.

Jared
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luv2cattlecall
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RE: A/C Systems And Accidents Causes

Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:29 am

The one A/C systems accident that still irks me is AeroPeru 603, which was a result of faulty readings caused by blocked static ports. Why were they blocked? Because someone used masking tape to cover them on the ground, instead of the brightly colored tape that was supposed to be used.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/AeroPeru_Flight_603

Quoting C5LOAD (Thread starter):
1. Autopilot (General)

While this one isn't a fault of Autopilot, per se, it did have a role to play.. on Aeroflot 593, one of the pilots thought that it would be a good idea to let his 15 year old sit in the front seat of an A310 full of pax. Unbeknownst to the cabin crew, when the kid pushed the yoke, autopilot, by design, disengaged. By the time anyone realized what had occurred, it was too late.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_593

Quoting C5LOAD (Thread starter):
6. TCAS

Again, this one wasn't the fault of TCAS, but it played a role. A DHL aircraft and a Russian aircraft were about to mid-air collide, and TCAS instructed one to dive and the other to pull up. The ATController, however, instructed the Russian jet to pull up as well (could have been vice versa), which contradicted what the aircraft's TCAS told the crew to do. Naturally, when both aircraft partake in the save evasive maneuver, you can guess the ending.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_%C3%9Cberlingen_mid-air_collision

There was also the Gol 737 & Legacy collision that was, last I heard, a result of the Legacy's transponder not working properly Amazingly, the Legacy landed safely, with only a winglet missing. The 737 wasn't so lucky.

http://www.flttechonline.com/Current...%20Recommendations%20on%20TCAS.htm

Here are a few more TCAS ones

http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/A...eports:_LOS#TCAS-related_Incidents

Quoting C5LOAD (Thread starter):
5. GPWS

There was Ansett 703, which was possibly due to someone painting over a radio altimeter antenna, which messed up the GPWS

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Ansett_New_Zealand_Flight_703

Then there was Santa Barbara 518, which was a result of the crew outright ignoring the GPWS

Major Crashes Without Final Reports Until Now (by Gonzalo Jul 27 2008 in Civil Aviation) (do a ctrl + F and search the page for GPWS).

There was also an AA bird that did a CFIT in Colombia.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/American_Airlines_Flight_965

Hope that helps a bit!
.
 
mandala499
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RE: A/C Systems And Accidents Causes

Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:57 am

Quoting C5LOAD (Thread starter):
1. Autopilot (General)
2. Ice Protection Systems
3. WX Radar
4. Windshear
5. GPWS
6. TCAS

1. Autopilot (general)
- See #7 on Adam 574.
- Eastern Tristar Everglades? (A/P disconnect with no warning due to force on yoke).
- There are a few more cases I know which are unreported to date, but as a result of Autopilot failure caused by another error somewhere else (one was a take off with no engine GENs connected to the main buses, with APU on the buses, crew missed the checklist, A/P engaged, then crew realized APU was on and switched it off without checking the Main Gens status... Battery drained and aircraft went >90degs at 5000ft, recovered at around 1000ft. Miraculously escaped).
- Turkish Amsterdam... failure of one of the radio altimeters resulted in the autothrottle entering flare mode.

3. WX Radar
Radar attenuation/limitations:
- Southern Air DC-9 Georgia
- Speedbird 009 (WX Radar vs Volcanic Ash)
- Lots of problems attributed to wrong WX Radar tilt settings... but that's human caused.

5. GPWS
Hmm... which crash was it that had the crew saying "What does Pull Up mean?" It's not a GPWS failure, but a lack of understanding of it.

I'll add this:
7. IRS
Adam Air 574 is a classic case of a lack in training on the IRS and how problems interact with the rest of the aircraft systems.
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
kit777
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RE: A/C Systems And Accidents Causes

Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:01 am

Whilst not a problem caused by the autopilot malfunctioning as such, in Eastern Airlines 401 one of the factors was the pilot putting gentle pressure on the control yoke (possibly while communicating with his crew) on approach causing the L-1011 to enter a slow descent controlled by the AP. The pilots did not notice this until too late as they were dealing with what looked like a broken light bulb in the landing gear position system.

There are also examples of incidents caused by lack of familiarity with new aircraft systems, but I assume that isn't what you're looking for.

Thanks

Kit
 
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Jetlagged
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RE: A/C Systems And Accidents Causes

Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:39 pm

Quoting C5LOAD (Thread starter):
1. Autopilot (General)

There was an incident caused by an autopilot fault on a BA 747-100. The aircraft didn't capture the localiser properly and drifted off to the right of the runway. The Captain initiated an auto go-around when he didn't see the runway at 200 ft but the aircraft heading took it over an airport hotel close to the runway, clearing it by just 12 ft.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19891121-1

Quoting C5LOAD (Thread starter):
2. Ice Protection Systems

The American Eagle ATR-72 which crashed at Roselawn in 1994 suffered from very heavy icing which the de-ice boots could not clear. The system didn't fail but was limited in its capability.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19941031-1
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JohnM
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RE: A/C Systems And Accidents Causes

Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:30 pm

To turn your question around, I believe GPWS (and EGPWS), TCAS, have saved countless lives. I do maintain GPWS, and for all it does, it is a VERY reliable system.To the guy who designed that system.....my hat is off to them!
 
flybaurlax
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RE: A/C Systems And Accidents Causes

Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:47 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 2):
I'll add this:
7. IRS

There was an airliner that was shot down because they violated that country's airspace. They didn't know they were lost, because they had the wrong setting selected from the INS, and the autopilot was on the heading select with the INS. In essence, it veered off course without the crew knowing, and was shot down by the Soviets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007
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Starlionblue
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RE: A/C Systems And Accidents Causes

Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:35 pm

Quoting luv2cattlecall (Reply 1):
The one A/C systems accident that still irks me is AeroPeru 603, which was a result of faulty readings caused by blocked static ports. Why were they blocked? Because someone used masking tape to cover them on the ground, instead of the brightly colored tape that was supposed to be used.

It is true that they didn't have accurate data. However the pilots are not entirely without fault. They should have set thrust to given known values that correspond to given airspeeds. Why they did not I don't know. Was it missing from their training? Once stable in altitude they could have contacted ATC and another aircraft could have been sent to guide them in, or they could have been vectored in.

Note also that this was not a system fault. Sadly, there was nothing mechanically wrong with the aircraft. Pure human error on the part of the (not fully trained) mechanic. Also his supervisor (who IIRC did have the proper training) was not present.
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tdscanuck
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RE: A/C Systems And Accidents Causes

Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:08 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
They should have set thrust to given known values that correspond to given airspeeds. Why they did not I don't know.

A contributing factor there was that ATC was giving them bad altitude data (because ATC was using transponder altitude, which was being fed by the bad air data system)...they thought they were a lot higher than they actually were, so didn't have a sense or urgency concurrent with their actual risk.

Tom.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: A/C Systems And Accidents Causes

Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:32 pm

Oh great.

So if that happened today in an up-to-date location like NYC or London (sorry Peru) what would have happened and how has the Aeroperu 757 accident have affected procedures?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
mandala499
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RE: A/C Systems And Accidents Causes

Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:56 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
Why they did not I don't know.

Task saturation... Too many conflicting information going on at the same time, they failed to pick up bad air data...

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
Was it missing from their training?

Flight without unreliable airspeed is in the QRH of the airplane (and every airplane)... it contains the checklist and also links with the pitch vs power table required for conducting flight with unreliable airspeed in climb, cruise, descent and approach phases.

With hindsight, it's easy to say, "ah, go to Unreliable Airspeed QRH/checklist"... but in the heat of the moment, sad simple explanation on how the crew performed is task saturation due to the conflicting information...

Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: A/C Systems And Accidents Causes

Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:35 pm

Ah thx. Has training changed after the accident?
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
tdscanuck
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RE: A/C Systems And Accidents Causes

Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:05 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
So if that happened today in an up-to-date location like NYC or London (sorry Peru) what would have happened and how has the Aeroperu 757 accident have affect

Same thing, in all likelihood. ATC radar in NYC or London works the same way. If the crew had understood what their true problem was, any ATC could have helped them out, but without that information from the crew all ATC could do was answer the questions they were asked.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 10):
With hindsight, it's easy to say, "ah, go to Unreliable Airspeed QRH/checklist"... but in the heat of the moment, sad simple explanation on how the crew performed is task saturation due to the conflicting information...

It's not even clear that they realized that they had an unreliable airspeed problem...they may well have thought the airspeed was working just fine and that the warning computer was acting up, or that the airspeed was giving real data for a very erratic flight path.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 11):
Has training changed after the accident?

I'm not sure of concrete changes, but this is one of the textbook accidents for following proper maintenance procedures.

Tom.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: A/C Systems And Accidents Causes

Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:22 pm

Macarthur Job's series of books "Air Disaster" are great reading and very well presented.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Air-Disaster...UTF8&s=books&qid=1268058083&sr=8-2
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mandala499
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RE: A/C Systems And Accidents Causes

Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:45 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 12):
It's not even clear that they realized that they had an unreliable airspeed problem...they may well have thought the airspeed was working just fine and that the warning computer was acting up, or that the airspeed was giving real data for a very erratic flight path.

Indeed... icing to the extent of blocking both the main tube AND the drain holes on the pitot would give a frozen airspeed... hence, it would paint a strange mental picture when the unrealiable airspeed signs came up... just one of those situations one would rather not be in...

mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !

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