N49WA
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UAL 727 Friendship - Unpainted Rudder

Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:48 pm

I've been watching some old airline/airport films on youtube and looking at photos here. I noticed that United's 727 Friendship paint scheme did not include a painted rudder. All other airlines look like they did paint the entire vertical stab and rudder (except bare metal schemes, as AA). Any particular reason?
Did a search, no joy.
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AirframeAS
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RE: UAL 727 Friendship - Unpainted Rudder

Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:45 pm

Quoting n49wa (Thread starter):
Any particular reason?

Yeah, on the Boeings, all rudders have to be balanced when painting them. They have a ballast in them. So the weight of the paint has to be distributed across the entire rudder. The Boeing rudders, when painting them, require a RII.

The Airbuses, on the other hand, do not need to be balanced when paint is applied.
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N49WA
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RE: UAL 727 Friendship - Unpainted Rudder

Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:23 pm

I think I get what you describe, but what would allow for example National or Delta to paint their 727 rudders but not United? Thanks.
If it's new and quiet, I don't want to fly it.
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: UAL 727 Friendship - Unpainted Rudder

Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:53 pm

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):
Yeah, on the Boeings, all rudders have to be balanced when painting them.

I don't think the 727 has a balanced rudder. In 1991, I recall there were no restrictions in using a roller to paint out the Blue Ball on the PA 727's. I don't think this is possible with 737's, 757's and 767's unless you remove the rudder.


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Here is a pic of the 727 production line:

http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices...lery/images/commercial/727-11.html

Note that none of the rudders are painted.

[Edited 2010-02-21 16:00:11]
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EMBQA
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RE: UAL 727 Friendship - Unpainted Rudder

Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:21 am

Quoting n49wa (Thread starter):
Any particular reason?

I think it was just the livery style back then. I've seen a few airlines back in the early 1960's that did that.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):

Yeah, on the Boeings, all rudders have to be balanced when painting them

I've been on site to see a: 767, 747-400, 747SP, 757, 737 and 727... at no time were the rudders balanced.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 1):
The Boeing rudders, when painting them, require a RII.

Making it RII is the airlines choice.. it's not a requirement...
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AirframeAS
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RE: UAL 727 Friendship - Unpainted Rudder

Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:06 am

Well, my understanding during my time at AS, when we remove the rudder for re-paint, I was told that the rudder had to be balanced while it was being painted (the rudder was always sitting on scales) and that it was a RII.

I am not saying anyone here is incorrect. I am saying that is what I learned when I was working on the 737's at AS. Keep in mind the rudders were composites.

[Edited 2010-02-22 22:07:27]
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474218
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RE: UAL 727 Friendship - Unpainted Rudder

Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:18 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 4):
I've been on site to see a: 767, 747-400, 747SP, 757, 737 and 727... at no time were the rudders balanced.

Rudders are balanced. Balancing is required to prevent flutter if hydraulic power or cable tension to the rudder is lost. The SRM provides details on how to ballance and re-balance the rudder.

There are provisions in the SRM for calculating the amount of added weight required after a repaint. Only when the maximum amount of allowable weight would be exceeded must the rudder be removed, striped, repainted and re-balanced.
 
boeing767mech
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RE: UAL 727 Friendship - Unpainted Rudder

Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:40 pm

If I remember right, the 727's have a weight you can add to the forward part of the spar for a repaint. The SRM gave you the weight part number for different amounts of paint applied up to a certain amount, then you have to balance the flight control. But this is all going from memory 15 years ago working in a aviation sweat shop.

David
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AirframeAS
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RE: UAL 727 Friendship - Unpainted Rudder

Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:46 pm

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 7):
If I remember right, the 727's have a weight you can add to the forward part of the spar for a repaint. The SRM gave you the weight part number for different amounts of paint applied up to a certain amount, then you have to balance the flight control.

That is exactly what I meant. Thank you.

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 7):
But this is all going from memory 15 years ago working in a aviation sweat shop.

I have not touched a 737 in nearly 8-10 years now. Yes, I know...that's sad...really. 
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