tams747
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Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:56 pm

I am interested in getting a type rating in a citation or really any biz jet, I've checked out a few places like Pan Am academy etc.. I was wondering if anyone had information on the best way to get one and a place that you would recommend. Thanks!
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ajd1992
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:51 am

How many hours do you have? I will be honest, I wouldn't do it right now - there are always people with more hours than you trying to get into the job too and combined with the economy crisis it's not very likely you'll finish it and jump straight into a job.
 
tams747
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:03 am

I'd be doing it just to get one not really for a job but for experience. I'm at about 500tt.
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lowrider
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:24 am

Unless you have a job offer riding on it, I would invest the money in building time or earning additional endorsements or ratings. The best way to get a type is to get someone else to pay for it.
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pilotpip
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:36 am

Quoting lowrider (Reply 3):
The best way to get a type is to get someone else to pay for it.

Bingo. Paying for training won't get you anywhere and a lot of people look down on it. The experience of getting a type will quickly be lost if you're not flying the aircraft regularly.
DMI
 
JETPILOT
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:44 am

Check out Aeroservice in MIA. If your going to get a type rating get it for something cool like a 747 or DC10. It will run you about $8000 and take about 4 weeks.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:39 am

Quoting lowrider (Reply 3):
Unless you have a job offer riding on it, I would invest the money in building time or earning additional endorsements or ratings. The best way to get a type is to get someone else to pay for it

Amen!

If somebody hires you for an operation requiring a type rating, guess what, you're getting a FREE type rating! 
 
JETPILOT
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:15 am

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 4):
Bingo. Paying for training won't get you anywhere and a lot of people look down on it. The experience of getting a type will quickly be lost if you're not flying the aircraft regularly.

I disagree. That is not considered "pay for traiing" I know a few pilots who got type ratings to further their careers. Not with 500 hrs though.
 
pilotpip
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:52 pm

I have a serious problem with buying a type in an aircraft you aren't flying to "further" your career regardless of how much time you have. We've all worked hard to get where we are and if a prospective employer isn't willing to pay the necesarry costs associated with properly training me to safely operate their aircraft, they're likely willing to cut corners elsewhere as well.

Unless someone else is paying for your type (employer, government, etc) it's not worth it. You'll gain more valuable experience elsewhere.
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PGNCS
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:22 pm

Quoting tams747 (Reply 2):
I'd be doing it just to get one not really for a job but for experience. I'm at about 500tt.

You don't need a type rating unless you have money to burn. Prices can start under $10K, but the prices most often quoted are based on the shortest course the school is approved to offer, courses that are geared to pilots with an ATP and turbine experience. Others have said it and I agree: if you have a job offer contingent upon your obtaining the rating, it could be a prudent investment, but at your level of experience you need total time, PIC, and turbine time if possible. Worry about a type rating when you need a type rating.

Quoting lowrider (Reply 3):
Unless you have a job offer riding on it, I would invest the money in building time or earning additional endorsements or ratings. The best way to get a type is to get someone else to pay for it.

  

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 8):
I have a serious problem with buying a type in an aircraft you aren't flying to "further" your career regardless of how much time you have. We've all worked hard to get where we are and if a prospective employer isn't willing to pay the necesarry costs associated with properly training me to safely operate their aircraft, they're likely willing to cut corners elsewhere as well.

You mean like Southwest?

Some operators make employment offers contingent on your having or obtaining a type rating; some are very legitimate (note the proliferation of B-737 schools), others are not. Choose wisely, but to contend that an operator that requires you to obtain training at your own expense before hiring cuts corners on safety is not necessarily correct.
 
pilotpip
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:26 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 9):
You mean like Southwest?

Pay for the type that way, or go to somewhere like Continental where you'll make $20k less in the first year. Neither way is right.
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tb727
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:54 am

Also getting a type rating should be something like a badge of honor after paying your dues and building time in said a/c. The day you pass your first type ride is one that you will never forget. I feel like I earned that first one and it made me feel really good instead of just plunking down $8000 and getting it that way. Not to mention my DE is a real ball buster on type rides and I aced it. After that I really felt up to the challenge and honor of being a PIC.

That being said I would buy my rating if SWA hired me. I didn't agree one bit with them back in the day when you pretty much HAD to have the type done just to get an interview there(up until about 5 years ago maybe). I honestly think it was a scam and someone made a lot of money on that one. Still don't agree with it totally but I can see why they do it.
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PGNCS
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:27 am

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 10):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 9):
You mean like Southwest?

Pay for the type that way, or go to somewhere like Continental where you'll make $20k less in the first year. Neither way is right.

Ummmmmmmmmm....yes. I was explicitly saying that it was a very reasonable decision to buy a 737 rating for employment at Southwest. I wasn't the one who said it was wrong or had any kind of problem with it:

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 8):
I have a serious problem with buying a type in an aircraft you aren't flying to "further" your career regardless of how much time you have. We've all worked hard to get where we are and if a prospective employer isn't willing to pay the necesarry costs associated with properly training me to safely operate their aircraft, they're likely willing to cut corners elsewhere as well.

My specific point was, in fact, that Southwest requires purchase of the rating, and if you are offered a job there and want to work there, it is worth the investment. Further, I was pointing out that Southwest (and some other, mostly corporate, operators) require purchase of a rating, and don't cut corners in their operations.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 11):
That being said I would buy my rating if SWA hired me. I didn't agree one bit with them back in the day when you pretty much HAD to have the type done just to get an interview there(up until about 5 years ago maybe). I honestly think it was a scam and someone made a lot of money on that one. Still don't agree with it totally but I can see why they do it.

Southwest is a very well-managed and cost conscious airline. If you want to work there and they offer you a job, the rating is a no-brainer. It's irrelevant whether we agree with it or not: if you don't want to pay for it there's hundreds of other guys who want that job and they know it.
 
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tb727
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:10 pm

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 12):
Southwest is a very well-managed and cost conscious airline. If you want to work there and they offer you a job, the rating is a no-brainer. It's irrelevant whether we agree with it or not: if you don't want to pay for it there's hundreds of other guys who want that job and they know it.

Oh yeah, I already have the money saved up in the bank! Just in case, you know. I'm really happy right now though, 20 minute drive to work, not to mention I fly a cool dinosaur around! Heck I was proud to get my SIC type in that even though it's all paperwork and a sim ride.
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PGNCS
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:23 pm

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 13):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 12):
Southwest is a very well-managed and cost conscious airline. If you want to work there and they offer you a job, the rating is a no-brainer. It's irrelevant whether we agree with it or not: if you don't want to pay for it there's hundreds of other guys who want that job and they know it.

Oh yeah, I already have the money saved up in the bank! Just in case, you know. I'm really happy right now though, 20 minute drive to work, not to mention I fly a cool dinosaur around! Heck I was proud to get my SIC type in that even though it's all paperwork and a sim ride.

Good luck and enjoy the Jurassic jet while it lasts; I flew it for several years, and believe me when I tell you the 737 will be no problem at all for someone like you! Good idea to have that money socked away. Fly safe!

PS I understand about the type on your license; pretty soon I will be the only guy left at my airline with an L-1011 type!  
 
pilotpip
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:28 pm

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 13):
Oh yeah, I already have the money saved up in the bank!

Make sure you don't go into interviews at airlines that don't operate that aircraft or perhaps do and pay a lot less (CO) without time in the logbook and expect to get very far.  
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alaska737
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:19 pm

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 8):
I have a serious problem with buying a type in an aircraft you aren't flying to "further" your career

You have a problem with bettering yourself? It sounds like he wants to do it for fun, and honestly whats going to be better experience; getting a type rating and turbine experience or doing another 100 laps around the pattern?
 
lowrider
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:38 pm

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 16):
and honestly whats going to be better experience; getting a type rating and turbine experience or doing another 100 laps around the pattern?

Depends on the person's background and what certificates they currently have, but at 500 hours total time, I could think of many more productive ways to better ones self than going after a type rating. For example, if the person has not tailwheel experience, go get a tailwheel endorsement. It will do much more for your stick and rudder skills than an Citation or type. A glider cert will also teach you quite a bit and could broaden your student base as a CFI. Same goes for helicopter. Helo guys can sometimes find jobs when the fixed wing guys can't. All of these will teach you much more than banging out a quickie type rating.
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alaska737
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:57 pm

Quoting lowrider (Reply 17):
For example, if the person has not tailwheel experience, go get a tailwheel endorsement. It will do much more for your stick and rudder skills than an Citation or type. A glider cert will also teach you quite a bit and could broaden your student base as a CFI. Same goes for helicopter. Helo guys can sometimes find jobs when the fixed wing guys can't.

You realize its probably twice as expensive just to get a PRIVATE helicoptor license then it is to get a type rating for a business jet, then to get hired, you would have to get a commercial cert. Plus, flying a helicoptor wont help you much when it comes to fixed wing operation.

Tailwheel is fun but doesnt have much practibilty for someone whos going to be flying turbine aircraft in the future. And gliders sound pretty boring to me personally. I think his point is that he wants to get out of the GA field.

Keep in mind, this guy asked for advice on WHERE to get a type rating, not what would you do if you were in his shoes. Answer his question, dont tell him what to do. I'd like to get a type rating on something (CRJ, ERJ, 737) as well before I go in the industry. It can only help you.

[Edited 2010-03-22 15:59:01]
 
ROSWELL41
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:36 pm

At 500 hours some training providers may not consider you eligible for their PIC type rating courses, you will need to call and inquire. FlightSafety International would be my first choice for a training provider, however, they are also the most expensive. I also believe there is a place in San Diego that does Citation type ratings in the actual airplane. This would be beneficial because you would not be subject to the SOE limitation on your pilot certificate like you would if you took the checkride in the simulator. If you are going to purchase a type rating, I would point you toward a common aircraft like the CE-500/CE-525 or B-737. Also, keep in mind not knowing your flying background, these courses can be very intense and challenging for even much more experienced aviators. All type rating checkrides are done to ATP standards regardless of the grade of pilot certificate you hold.

As to whether or not to do it - its your money. There are no shortcuts in this business and no substitutes for real experience. I hope these comments can help your decision.
 
lowrider
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:39 pm

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 18):
You realize its probably twice as expensive just to get a PRIVATE helicoptor license then it is to get a type rating for a business jet,

Depends on the type, have you checked how much some of the Gulfstream or Falcon types run? Hugely expensive. I have no idea what his budget is. But if I had the money and wanted as many job options as possible, I would make sure I covered the helo side of the house as well.

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 18):
Tailwheel is fun but doesnt have much practibilty for someone whos going to be flying turbine aircraft in the future

I disagree. I picked up some valuable skills learning tailwheel. As the drug commercials say, your results may vary, but for a short course that adds a lot, I think tailwheel is a great way to go.

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 18):
And gliders sound pretty boring to me personally

I thought we were talking about improving ones self, not entertaining. Maybe gliders aren't for you. Thats fine. But even if you only do a few lessons, you will not be any worse off for having the knowledge.

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 18):
Answer his question

I believe I did, earlier on:

Quoting lowrider (Reply 3):
The best way to get a type is to get someone else to pay for it.

If you a type for the novelty of it, just take the lowest bidder, pretty much anyone will do. If you are looking for professional development, then I don't t think buying type ratings is the way to go at 500 hours total time.
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alaska737
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:46 am

Quoting lowrider (Reply 20):
Quoting alaska737 (Reply 18):
Answer his question

I believe I did, earlier on:

I disagree, see below:

Quoting lowrider (Reply 3):
The best way to get a type is to get someone else to pay for it.

it doesn't answer where he should go, obviously if he's in college no one, besides maybe his parents are going to pay for it.


Quoting lowrider (Reply 20):
But if I had the money and wanted as many job options as possible, I would make sure I covered the helo side of the house as well.

Well if you really want your bases covered it would probably be wise to get a second degree outside of aviation

Quoting lowrider (Reply 20):
But even if you only do a few lessons, you will not be any worse off for having the knowledge.

I agree with that but again, it sounds like he wants to get out of the GA world.

I guess I'm at a loss as to why everyone is trying to discourage him, who gives a hoot why he wants the type rating, he asked for a recommendation on where to go and people have been saying he shouldn't do it.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:50 am

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 16):
or doing another 100 laps around the pattern?

Well that's at least another 10hours with the logbook, and frankly the way things are nowadays the more hours you got the better off you are.

Quoting lowrider (Reply 20):
I disagree. I picked up some valuable skills learning tailwheel. As the drug commercials say, your results may vary, but for a short course that adds a lot, I think tailwheel is a great way to go

Any additional course or rating will give you more experience and skills, if you know how to get the most out of it.

But IMO If you really want to become a safer and better pilot, and have fun while at it, an upset attitude recovery training course has no equal (aside from maybe a full blown advanced aerobatics course in an Edge 540  )

I flew 15 hours in the Super Decathlon and not only was it insanely fun but I learned soooo much. I'd go as far as to say they should make that course mandatory for all pilots. Too bad you can't get the tailwheel endorsement out of it though. Not at my school at least.
 
alaska737
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:07 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 22):
I flew 15 hours in the Super Decathlon and not only was it insanely fun but I learned soooo much. I'd go as far as to say they should make that course mandatory for all pilots. Too bad you can't get the tailwheel endorsement out of it though. Not at my school at least.

That was my favorite course, but I cant believe they don't let you land even if you have a tail wheel endorsement! We really need a second one though since 912MA is down just about every week.
 
tams747
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:18 am

Quoting lowrider (Reply 3):
The best way to get a type is to get someone else to pay for it.

This is the same thing as saying the best way to get a car is to have someone buy it for you.

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 4):
Paying for training won't get you anywhere and a lot of people look down on it.

I cannot think of a situation in which a perspective employer (which is what I think you mean by this) would look down on me because at some point I decided that I felt like getting a type in a citation. To me its like adding a rating to your cert, and no one looks down on you because at some point you paid to get that multi add on to your commercial cert or your MEI.

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 8):
I have a serious problem with buying a type in an aircraft you aren't flying to "further" your career regardless of how much time you have.

I'm not trying to further my career in anyway by getting a type.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 11):
Also getting a type rating should be something like a badge of honor after paying your dues and building time in said a/c. The day you pass your first type ride is one that you will never forget. I feel like I earned that first one and it made me feel really good instead of just plunking down $8000 and getting it that way. Not to mention my DE is a real ball buster on type rides and I aced it. After that I really felt up to the challenge and honor of being a PIC.

So you think that type ratings should be limited to only those who have been hired and put through training on the employers buck?

I would feel like I earned my first one too because I would have. Its not like you go into a place, give them 8K and walk out with a type on your cert. I would have to study and posses the same skills as everyone else that has done it before me to get it.

Everyone has had a DE that has been a real "ball buster" at some point in their training, and just because yours was so hard does not mean that you earned your type more so than someone else.

Quoting lowrider (Reply 17):
A glider cert will also teach you quite a bit and could broaden your student base as a CFI. Same goes for helicopter.

Yeah sure a glider cert would be cool... maybe but again is that not the same as adding a type?

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 18):
You realize its probably twice as expensive just to get a PRIVATE helicoptor license then it is to get a type rating for a business jet, then to get hired, you would have to get a commercial cert. Plus, flying a helicoptor wont help you much when it comes to fixed wing operation.

I'm not sure I could have said this better myself.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 22):
Well that's at least another 10hours with the logbook, and frankly the way things are nowadays the more hours you got the better off you are.

Okay so I fly 100 circuits in a seminole or whatever spending somewhere around half of what I would for a 737 type and thats just what I get out of it, 10hrs of multi time. Now I spend the extra 4K to go get a type in a 737 and lets see what I get out of that: min 12hrs ground school (some places Ive seen as much as 60hrs) which teaches me many systems that I might not be too familiar with because they are only on large aircraft. Then I get some sim time which in my opinion is a thousand times better experience than 10hrs of routine pattern flights.
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tams747
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:21 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 22):
I flew 15 hours in the Super Decathlon

I loved that course, I am curious as to why it took you 15 hrs though... its like a 6hr course
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pilotpip
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:08 am

Quoting tams747 (Reply 24):

I cannot think of a situation in which a perspective employer (which is what I think you mean by this) would look down on me because at some point I decided that I felt like getting a type in a citation. To me its like adding a rating to your cert, and no one looks down on you because at some point you paid to get that multi add on to your commercial cert or your MEI.

Walk into any airline interview with a 737 type and no time in it that isn't Southwest and you'll have a very hard time getting hired. I know a lot of guys that bought one hoping to get on at WN, didn't, and haven't been hired by any other major they interviewed at and in a couple cases the type was specifically brought up in the interview.

If you want to do a type, great, go for it. It's your money. However it will be a huge waste of that money if you're not going to fly the airplane any time soon. You'd be better off finding a place with a decent twin, renting it for 50 hours and doing a massive cross country. It would be a much better use of your current skillset, more than likely expand it and refine it by exposing you to new weather and terrain challenges and perhaps most importantly, it would be one hell of an adventure.
DMI
 
alaska737
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:06 pm

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 26):

ok, I'm going to throw out a little scenario out there and I'd like you to answer it.

I am a participant in NIFA (National Intercollegiate Flying Association) and I compete every year, this year I am hoping to win the National Top Pilot award. In the past the top pilot receives some kind of prize and its often been a free type rating(737, ERJ, Gulfstream). So by my reasoning of what your saying. If I were to win the top pilot award and was offered a free type rating, your telling me I should decline if I ever want to be hired by an airline. Is this correct?
 
pilotpip
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:33 pm

No, but be prepared to explain it. It will more than likely come up. In your case (good luck btw) it wouldn't be a detriment but if you were to pay out of pocket, it will likely become that. Continental was hiring people with no turbine PIC and DL was putting newhires in the widebodies because so many got a few hours in the 737 and bolted for WN. A very good friend and mentor was shot down by Fed Ex because he was in the pool at WN and had the type.

I know what NIFA is, I was a participant and I volunteered to help my alma mater host it last year.

You guys are all in a big hurry to get to the regionals and fly a jet. Trust me, from the outside looking in that's the way to go. Once you're in it's no different than instructing and doing the same thing all the time. In fact, it's so standardized for the sake of safety that it can often get boring. I found instructing was more fun because you never really knew how your student was going to try and kill you. If it paid more I'd still be doing it. Waiting out a ground stop at LGA is about the most mind-numbing experience on Earth and it's a daily occurence. Most of us sit up front and talk about exciting stories from our instructing days, 135 days and just various GA flying in an almost romantic sense.

I enjoy my job and I look forward to going to work but after a couple years it's just a job. The novelty is long gone.
DMI
 
alaska737
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:12 pm

Ok I see what you mean. I don't necessarily want to go work for a regional right off the bat. I'd like to fly islanders or twin otters or something in Alaska for a while, also do some seaplane stuff. I don't really see myself as a CFI. I guess I'd like to do a lot of different types of flying. Its not that I get bored flying the same types of planes, I just want to fly everything possible. Probably why I'd like to get a type rating in something. Just to do something different, see how I like it.
 
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tb727
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:22 pm

Quoting tams747 (Reply 24):

This is the same thing as saying the best way to get a car is to have someone buy it for you.
Quoting tams747 (Reply 24):
So you think that type ratings should be limited to only those who have been hired and put through training on the employers buck?

That is not at all what anyone is saying. You guys are in such a hurry to get a job with 500 hours and get "paid to fly" that you will do anything including spending a ridiculous amount of money on a type when you have no time to back it up in the real airplane. You SHOULD go through a company, get time and experience and then go get your type on the companies dime. That is how it has worked for 50 years but all these Chuck Yeager's coming out of flight school directly into the right seat of a RJ the last few years apparently need to be one-upped by guys coming out of school now thinking that a type will help them further their career. When will it end?

Quoting tams747 (Reply 24):

Everyone has had a DE that has been a real "ball buster" at some point in their training, and just because yours was so hard does not mean that you earned your type more so than someone else.

Yep, it does. If you flew under him or knew your way around the on-demand world, you would know what I am talking about.

I see you are from Alaska so I am going to put this how you might understand it. Lots of flying jobs up there, as you know, require experience flying in the mountains. Now if some young, low time guy comes up from being a CFI in Florida and wants a job bush flying just because he wants to, would you hire him? No way, he has no skills to back it up. Sure he might work out and I don't doubt it does, but you know what, it's a huge risk for everyone to think it is going to work out.

Now if I am at a company and I am hiring someone, I am not going to hire a guy with a type just because he has one, especially a low time one. I am going to hire the guy that is coming in excited to do a good job and work his way up through the ranks and earn his type, even if he is low time. In the long run he is going to work out best for me. In my experience most guys that come in with a type have a chip on their shoulder and end up getting their butt handed to them and move on to the next company and becomes their problem.

I'm all about having fun with aviation, if someone wants to get a type just to get one and have it on the back of his license that is great. But if someone is going to go do it to try and further their career, it's a huge gamble and doesn't make sense money wise to me.
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:32 pm

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 23):
That was my favorite course, but I cant believe they don't let you land even if you have a tail wheel endorsement!

Blame it on insurance.

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 23):
We really need a second one though since 912MA is down just about every week.

Really? I don't remember 912MA being that unreliable when I was working dispatch. I think you new kids can't fly worth a damn and just beat the crap out of it     

But yeah DAB took over our extra one because of the tornado, and never gave it back   

Oh and the two planes we did finally get back from them (Riddle 70 and 72) were so trashed and rusted we just gave them away. And those planes were mint condition when we sent them over. Needless to say the PRC MX guys bitched out the MX guys at DAB.

Quoting tams747 (Reply 24):
Then I get some sim time which in my opinion is a thousand times better experience than 10hrs of routine pattern flights.

I have 25hrs of Level D 737 time, and I'm technically type rated (all I need to get the type is fill out a 8710 form, but that wasn't part of the deal for my internship)

I don't have those hours considered in my total time since there seems to be varying views on how to consider that time, so I just put them aside. I do mention the time in my resumes but frankly as others have said, even with the type rating it will do little more than possibly make your resume look cuter and raise eyebrows, and not necessarily in a good way.

Seriously, just use that money for more REAL flight time. Take it from someone who was in your exact same shoes, and in the same school not long ago.

Quoting tams747 (Reply 25):
I loved that course, I am curious as to why it took you 15 hrs though... its like a 6hr course

Because my IP said I could tell him to "fail" me on some of the units so I would "have" to do repeat flights. The course isn't even pass fail in the end so it wouldn't hurt at all if I did more flights just for shits and giggles. And so I did 
 
alaska737
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 am

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:13 pm

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 30):
That is how it has worked for 50 years but all these Chuck Yeager's coming out of flight school directly into the right seat of a RJ the last few years apparently need to be one-upped by guys coming out of school now thinking that a type will help them further their career.

Um no. I honestly dont want to ever fly an RJ, and unlike many airline pilots, I actually enjoy flying. I dont think I'm chuck yeager either, I'm not a cocky pilot but I am confident in my abilities.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 30):
You guys are in such a hurry to get a job with 500 hours and get "paid to fly" that you will do anything including spending a ridiculous amount of money on a type when you have no time to back it up in the real airplane.

Um, no again. I enjoy flying smaller planes, a 1965 Cessna 150 with no GPS, VOR, NDB, ect requires a lot more actual piloting than these glass cockpit craphouses. Fly cross country in a 150 is probably the greatest thrill in the world. Nothing but a sectional and a compass. Plus I fly for free right now so money isnt really a big deal.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 30):
I see you are from Alaska so I am going to put this how you might understand it. Lots of flying jobs up there, as you know, require experience flying in the mountains. Now if some young, low time guy comes up from being a CFI in Florida and wants a job bush flying just because he wants to, would you hire him? No way, he has no skills to back it up. Sure he might work out and I don't doubt it does, but you know what, it's a huge risk for everyone to think it is going to work out.

I am well aware of the "Alaska Time" that Alaskan carriers require, luckily I have done quite a bit of flying in Alaska including getting my Seaplane rating as well a a few mountain flying courses.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 30):
I'm all about having fun with aviation, if someone wants to get a type just to get one and have it on the back of his license that is great.

Thats kind of the point of this whole thread, I want to get the type rating for fun, and the way I'm understanding it, so does the thread starter

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 31):
Blame it on insurance.

yep.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 31):
I think you new kids can't fly worth a damn and just beat the crap out of it

Hey now! haha but really 2MA was down so much that I only got 2 flights in a 4 week period at one point.
 
tams747
Topic Author
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:52 pm

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:16 pm

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 30):
You guys are in such a hurry to get a job with 500 hours and get "paid to fly" that you will do anything including spending a ridiculous amount of money on a type when you have no time to back it up in the real airplane. You SHOULD go through a company, get time and experience and then go get your type on the companies dime. That is how it has worked for 50 years but all these Chuck Yeager's coming out of flight school directly into the right seat of a RJ the last few years apparently need to be one-upped by guys coming out of school now thinking that a type will help them further their career. When will it end?

Your missing the whole point of me being interested in getting a type. I'll say it again its not to further my career or to get myself in the right seat of a RJ because I'm not really even sure if I want to fly an RJ for some horrible outfit like mesa making less money than the high school drop out grocery store clerk with a 100 times the responsibility. I know you have to start somewhere and work your way up, I'm just not sure the airlines are for me. Its for the challenge of something new and in my opinion exciting.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 30):
Now if I am at a company and I am hiring someone, I am not going to hire a guy with a type just because he has one, especially a low time one. I am going to hire the guy that is coming in excited to do a good job and work his way up through the ranks and earn his type, even if he is low time.

Even if I was doing this because I thought it would help me land a job, that would have absolutely no effect on my excitement it would still be exactly the same.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 30):
I'm all about having fun with aviation, if someone wants to get a type just to get one and have it on the back of his license that is great. But if someone is going to go do it to try and further their career, it's a huge gamble and doesn't make sense money wise to me.

Well since your all about fun then why do you have such a problem with this idea?

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 31):
think you new kids can't fly worth a damn and just beat the crap out of it

Thats probably true, but the IPs cant land that little guy very well either.
GEFT. We do this together.
 
alaska737
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 am

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:18 pm

Quoting tams747 (Reply 33):
the IPs cant land that little guy very well either

true because they cant decide if they want to do a 3 point or 2 point touchdown so they try and do some kind of horrible combination. Its not that hard to land a tail-dragger
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:37 pm

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 32):
Hey now! haha but really 2MA was down so much that I only got 2 flights in a 4 week period at one point.

hehe weird I flew the thing almost daily never had problems with it. I guess it's starting to show its age.

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 34):
Thats probably true, but the IPs cant land that little guy very well either.

Oh I know. My IP never ever did a nice landing. We ALWAYS bounced all the way down the runway, no matter how soft the touchdown was, 3 pointer or not. The thing flies beautifully otherwise but in landing it always seemed like a handful.
 
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tb727
Posts: 1798
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:40 pm

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:41 pm

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 32):
Thats kind of the point of this whole thread, I want to get the type rating for fun, and the way I'm understanding it, so does the thread starter

Then go get typed in a DC-3 or a DC-8. Those are real airplanes that will be a good challenge. I'm biased towards the 727 because it's a pilots airplane. I'm sure if you google it there are a few places, most likely in MIA that will gladly help you out if they can.
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
alaska737
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:19 am

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:09 pm

I would love to get a type in a DC-8 or DC-3, if its not too expensive that is. DC-3 would be especially fun.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 36):
I'm biased towards the 727 because it's a pilots airplane.

I heard that plane is a b*tch to land smoothly.
 
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tb727
Posts: 1798
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:40 pm

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:45 pm

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 37):

I heard that plane is a b*tch to land smoothly.

Yeah, especially when light. Firm, non-bouncing landings in the touchdown zone, on speed is what you aim for, if it's smooth it's a bonus.

This is typically what your landing looks like after not having a stable approach in it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxRAnDQ_iM8

My first in the real plane was close to that, just I didn't nearly 3 point it on the 2nd landing, just didn't flare enough.
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 2221
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:06 am

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 37):
I would love to get a type in a DC-8 or DC-3, if its not too expensive that is. DC-3 would be especially fun.

I'd love to get the chance to do a DC-3 as well. There is a place that does them just south of Atlanta, but its a bit pricey for my taste. http://www.thedc-3network.com/

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
spudsmac
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:36 pm

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:29 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 31):
were so trashed and rusted we just gave them away.

Well, that could have something to do with a) DAB flies a lot more hours than PRC and b) DAB is at the beach with salt in the air.

Didn't know that al rusted. lol
 
tams747
Topic Author
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:52 pm

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:38 am

Quoting spudsmac (Reply 40):
Well, that could have something to do with a) DAB flies a lot more hours than PRC and b) DAB is at the beach with salt in the air.
Thats because PRC has like 3 airplanes now.....

Didn't know that al rusted. lol

Good one haha
GEFT. We do this together.
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2821
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:16 am

Quoting spudsmac (Reply 40):
Didn't know that al rusted. lol

Doesn't rust, but it sure does corrode fast. We bought a couple of their TB9s and they didn't last long before they wrote them off. Meanwhile our old aircraft that had more hours soldiered on.
DMI
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:18 am

Quoting spudsmac (Reply 40):
a) DAB flies a lot more hours than PRC

Very debateable specially considering we weren't shut down for months a year due to hurricane season.

Quoting spudsmac (Reply 40):
b) DAB is at the beach with salt in the air.

That was what the MX guys blamed the rust, errr... corrosion on.

Quoting spudsmac (Reply 40):
Didn't know that al rusted. lol
Quoting pilotpip (Reply 42):
Doesn't rust, but it sure does corrode fast.

Oh what the hell, same difference! Quit being nitpicky     

[Edited 2010-03-23 22:18:42]
 
cobra27
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:57 pm

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:54 am

A couple of my colleagues went doing FI (I was also planning that, but then changed my mind cause there are too much of them and it doesn't really interest me).
Anyway they spent around 6000 Euros, for 30 hours on Tomahawk. If you ask me it is a far better deal to get a type rating for a little more money (in USA or Canada, in EU they are quite expensive). But it unwise to do it without job prospect
 
cobra27
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:57 pm

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:04 am

Quoting alaska737 (Reply 16):
You have a problem with bettering yourself? It sounds like he wants to do it for fun, and honestly whats going to be better experience; getting a type rating and turbine experience or doing another 100 laps around the pattern?

Yes my point exactly, what is the point in having billion GA aviation hours if you want to fly big jets.
If you are really lucky (read: know somebody) here in my country IFR rating with CPL with 200 hours will get you on A320 or CRJ. There is nothing wrong with it if you want to ride a horse, you ride a horse not a donkey.

Quoting lowrider (Reply 17):
Depends on the person's background and what certificates they currently have, but at 500 hours total time, I could think of many more productive ways to better ones self than going after a type rating. For example, if the person has not tailwheel experience, go get a tailwheel endorsement. It will do much more for your stick and rudder skills than an Citation or type. A glider cert will also teach you quite a bit and could broaden your student base as a CFI. Same goes for helicopter. Helo guys can sometimes find jobs when the fixed wing guys can't. All of these will teach you much more than banging out a quickie type rating.

My friends who flew A320 think otherwise, you don't have to maintain back, thrust vectors, ecam actions..
GA doesn't have any systems, Seneca Landing check list- reduce gas
 
lowrider
Posts: 2542
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:09 am

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:32 pm

Quoting cobra27 (Reply 45):
My friends who flew A320 think otherwise, you don't have to maintain back, thrust vectors, ecam actions

I don't know what your friends have been telling you, having done a few type courses myself, I can tell you the following:

1. They add very little to your actual flying skills, if you haven't developed sufficient stick and rudder, and situational awareness skills before you get there, you probably won't pass. They do add to your knowledge of the particular aircraft type, but that will decay quickly without actual application.

2. They are not enjoyable. They are long days in class followed by long nights of study. Once you are done with the class room, you go to the simulator portion. If you are lucky, you can get the 10PM to the 2AM schedule. You will continue to put in hours of study every day. All of this to get to the checkride, which just demonstrates that you are minimally proficient to go fly plane and and really start learning.

Quoting cobra27 (Reply 45):
GA doesn't have any systems,

Actually they do. Electricity works the same in a 150 or a 777. Same goes for hydraulic fluid. Everything else is a matter of scale and complexity You want to learn about systems on large aircraft? Start with "Transport Catagory Aircraft Systems" by Thomas Wild. It gives you a good overview of how various systems are designed and work without being overly specific. At $45 USD, its way cheaper than a type course too.
Proud OOTSK member
 
cobra27
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:57 pm

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:29 pm

Quoting lowrider (Reply 46):
1. They add very little to your actual flying skills, if you haven't developed sufficient stick and rudder, and situational awareness skills before you get there, you probably won't pass. They do add to your knowledge of the particular aircraft type, but that will decay quickly without actual application.

My point was that flying GA planes isn't the same as flying jets. It had nothing to do you skills. You will not learn about AH-64 if you go sailing with a boat or ride a byicle. I flew around 12 planes so far,and other things UL, Gliders, light twins, glider parachutes, and also jets on sims. I don't think if I one day manage to get pilot job that flying 737 will be the sam


2. They are not enjoyable. They are long days in class followed by long nights of study. Once you are done with the class room, you go to the simulator portion. If you are lucky, you can get the 10PM to the 2AM schedule. You will continue to put in hours of study every day. All of this to get to the checkride, which just demonstrates that you are minimally proficient to go fly plane and and really start learning.

True, True.
Before you enrolle you should atleast read flight manual and checklist and procedures and concentrate sollely on flying

Quoting lowrider (Reply 46):
Electricity works the same in a 150 or a 777

oh ya, would you like to try 777 with out it?  
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:39 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 43):
Very debateable specially considering we weren't shut down for months a year due to hurricane season.

DAB hasn't been shut down for hurricanes once in the past three years. The closest thing to that was the whole tornado fiasco, and that only shut things down for a week because most of the aftermath took place over winter break.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Fly2HMO
Posts: 7207
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:14 pm

RE: Best Way To Get A Type Rating

Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:59 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 48):

DAB hasn't been shut down for hurricanes once in the past three years.

Ah, but you see, it does happen. I remember in 2009 several PRC IPs were sent out to DAB to help ferry out the whole DAB fleet from the area for the hurricane season. The day a hurricane goes to PRC is the day hell freezes over 

Anyways, lets stop derailing the thread...  

[Edited 2010-03-24 17:00:01]

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