c5load
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Posts: 344
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:40 pm

Pilot Training For The Airlines

Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:33 pm

In the military, our pilots go through training that includes books, sims, and local training flights. But typically I never see any airline airplanes doing touch and go's around an airport. Surely, they don't go straight from the simulator to an actual revenue flight with pax and all do they?
"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7798
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Pilot Training For The Airlines

Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:39 pm

Quoting c5load (Thread starter):
Surely, they don't go straight from the simulator to an actual revenue flight with pax and all do they?

Yes they do....

[Edited 2010-03-31 16:40:24]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
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Starlionblue
Posts: 17117
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Pilot Training For The Airlines

Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:39 pm

I have seen SK doing touch and gos in a 340 at MMX. Don't know if this is common practice.

Quoting c5load (Thread starter):
Surely, they don't go straight from the simulator to an actual revenue flight with pax and all do they?

Many do nowadays actually. The sims are that good.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
CosmicCruiser
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:01 am

RE: Pilot Training For The Airlines

Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:22 am

Remember that you go to the line flying with a Check Airman on IOE for about 25 hrs before you are released to fly with a regular line crew.
 
JETPILOT
Posts: 3094
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 6:40 am

RE: Pilot Training For The Airlines

Thu Apr 01, 2010 1:18 am

You will see airline crews being certified with 3 landing in the older planes like the 727, DC10, L1011, early model 737's,747's. The sims weren't good enough then to release a pilot for IOE straight fro mthe sim. The new sims as previously stated are good enough to certify pilots without doing bounces in the real plane.
 
e38
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:09 pm

RE: Pilot Training For The Airlines

Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:12 am

Quoting c5Load (Thread starter) "Surely, they don't go straight from the simulator to an actual revenue flight with pax and all do they?"

As previously stated, "Yes, they do."

These days, the quality of simulators (Level C and Level D) are such that they are certified by the FAA to fully qualify pilots to fly the aircraft.

When I got hired by an air carrier, the training program was something like (I don't recall exactly): one week of company indoctrination (finance, scheduling, bidding, general expectations, CRM training, etc.), two weeks of aircraft systems culminating in a 100 question written examination, two weeks of procedural training (running checklists and referencing proper procedures during normal and abnormal operations--this was accomplished in a non-motion simulator) and two weeks of full motion simulators (approximately 10 sim sessions, each one 4 hours long. Two of the ten sessions were evaluations, the other eight were instructional. It was something like four sim sessions and a progress evaluation; then four more sim sessions and a final evaluation).

When I was hired, I had about two thousand hours of flight time, but none of it in the type of airplane I was assigned to fly at the airline.

The very first time I actually flew the airplane and made a takeoff and landing, it was a regularly scheduled passenger flight with about 100 passengers on board. I flew two trips (a four day trip, a few days off; then a three day trip) with two instructor captains (as mentioned above--Initial Operating Experience IOE totaled a minimum of 25 hours) then I was released to the line to fly with any assigned Captain.

From the day I walked into training until my first flight was 45 days (and of course, there were two days off each week. It was not 45 days of training without a break!)

It was quite an amazing process.
 
airbuster
Posts: 308
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:43 am

RE: Pilot Training For The Airlines

Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:43 am

in europe, you have to do circuit training on your first jet or turboprop type rating, the one's that follow you can go straight from sim--->line flight.

I did my 2 days of circuits on the F70 and once i move on won't have to do those. Some guys at our company are Cruise Relief Pilots for a looooooooong time and then go straight to FO on a widebody, and because that's then their first type rating they get a empty 777/747/MD11 for themselves for a day!!!!!!!!

chaching $$$$$$$$


rgds

AB
FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
 
cobra27
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:57 pm

RE: Pilot Training For The Airlines

Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:09 am

I think you need at least 6 touch and goes for JAA type rating licence.
I have seen quite a few of them doing here at Adria at LJLJ airport, A320 doing around 20 t/g in one day.
And then first 100 hours on the line their is a third pilot behind you
 
PGNCS
Posts: 2249
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:07 am

RE: Pilot Training For The Airlines

Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:35 pm

Quoting c5load (Thread starter):
Surely, they don't go straight from the simulator to an actual revenue flight with pax and all do they?

Yes at most US carriers, and many worldwide. The simulators are quite good, and IOE is there with a check airman for at least 15 hours (or more, depending on what kind of school the pilot has just completed) of real-world operation to get the big picture of operating that specific type of aircraft. There are a few operators who still need to do bounces, and I have done them in numerous aircraft from the B-737 and DC-9, all the way up to the B-744 as a transitioning pilot and instructor/evaluator. The last time I did them was in 1996 I believe, and it is an extremely expensive and generally unnecessary way for pilots to get experience.
 
Inbound
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 7:59 am

RE: Pilot Training For The Airlines

Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:23 pm

Here in Trinidad, after 737 and Dash8 sim, pilots do Base Training which is usually about 5-6 touch-n-gos in one session.

When I came back from initial dash8 sim a few years ago, I actually did a complete IR ride that also included steep turns, stalls etc.
But that eventually got replaced by doing just the touch-n-gos.

After Base Training, line training usually involves anywhere from 5 to 10 flights with a training captain and training f/o (for just the first few flights), and route check, and then they cut you loose to fly with regular line captains.
Maintain own separation with terrain!
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7798
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Pilot Training For The Airlines

Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:51 pm

Quoting e38 (Reply 5):

I was on a cross country ferry flight one day and we had been in the air about 20mins or so. The Capt I was flying with was a friend and I had done ferry flights with him several times before... and he had actually let me hand fly a few times. I was sitting jumpseat.. he looked over at me and said.. "Hey, you have more actual stick time then the FO" I looked at the FO and asked "How much time do you have...? " They said... "20 minutes"
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"

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