justloveplanes
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Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:12 am

I rode what seemed to be a new CO 739 today, and the windows looked much squarer than I remember on 737's. Even than on newer 737 NG's. Am I imagining this? Is this maybe a new feature for 739ER's or signature interiors? It looked much better and seemed to send in more light BTW.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:56 pm

Really!!

That is interesting as I've flown on many of the CO 900ER's and have not noticed a new window design. Are you sure it wasn't just the TV monitor that was squarer and it caught your attention?  

I'll have to take a closer look today.
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tdscanuck
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:57 pm

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
Am I imagining this? Is this maybe a new feature for 739ER's or signature interiors? It looked much better and seemed to send in more light BTW.

I think this must be a change in the interior sidewall...I'm pretty certain they haven't changed the window itself.

Tom.
 
sandyb123
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:18 pm


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Looks fairly similar to me! The last cabin interior change happened in 1996 and the new sky interior is due to be rolled out later in 2010. Pretty much everything (except airline specific spec) has been the same across the NG range for 14 years.

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Fly2HMO
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:05 pm

Been on plenty of CO's ERs as well and they seem no different to me at all.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:12 pm

All of the 737 windows have and will be the same since day one until now.

[Edited 2010-04-13 15:59:36 by srbmod]
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migair54
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:20 pm

No plane will ever again have Square windows because this design is been changed due to an accident, I dont remember now exactly what type of plane but it was because cracks appearing in the corners........that´s why the are "round".....

Quoting justloveplanes (Thread starter):
I rode what seemed to be a new CO 739 today, and the windows looked much squarer than I remember on 737's. Even than on newer 737 NG's. Am I imagining this? Is this maybe a new feature for 739ER's or signature interiors? It looked much better and seemed to send in more light BTW.
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:32 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
Square windows because this design is been changed due to an accident, I dont remember now exactly what type of plane

It was the de Havilland Comet
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fraspotter
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:07 pm

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 7):
Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
Square windows because this design is been changed due to an accident, I dont remember now exactly what type of plane

It was the de Havilland Comet

Correct... AFAIK it was a design flaw in which metal fatigue from continuous cabin pressurization was advancing at a much greater rate in the areas at the corners of these windows. It was only a matter of time before these failed...
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KELPkid
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:15 pm

Ridden in a Fokker F100 recently? 
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Maybe oval windows have thrown you for a curve  
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TeamAmerica
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:59 pm

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 8):
Correct... AFAIK it was a design flaw in which metal fatigue from continuous cabin pressurization was advancing at a much greater rate in the areas at the corners of these windows. It was only a matter of time before these failed..

That's true, but the aircraft that were lost suffered failures in locations other than the windows. The window design was certainly problematic, but the root cause was in using punches rather than drills to make holes in the sheet metal. The metal itself was a bit too thin, and they failed to use sealants to tightly bond joints. In short, there was a lot more to it than just the shape of the windows.  
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Viper911
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:04 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 6):
No plane will ever again have Square windows because this design is been changed due to an accident, I dont remember now exactly what type of plane but it was because cracks appearing in the corners........that´s why the are "round".....

The OP is probably talking about the interior sidewall rather than the actual window structure.
 
convairnut
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:04 pm

A check in the IPC's of 737-300 thru -900 has almost all of the pax windows as interchangeable so I think it's your eyes playing tricks on you....
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cschleic
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:02 am

Plus the cost of a change like that wouldn't be something Boeing would undertake. AFAIK, the only 737 window change has been the elimination of the cockpit eyebrow windows, and that was to reduce maintenance costs.
 
CanadianDC10
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:59 am

Boeings have always had square-ish windows! Airbus' windows, for example, are far more rounded.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:15 am

Quoting CanadianDC10 (Reply 14):
Boeings have always had square-ish windows! Airbus' windows, for example, are far more rounded.

The Boeing 377 Stratocruiser offered the option of round or rectangular windows. The latter were significantly larger. You could also have round windows on the main passenger deck and rectangular windows in the lower deck lounge, or vice versa. You can often identify the original operator of B377s by their window layout as the 5 original operators chose 4 different window configurations..

Pan Am - all round
BOAC - main deck round, lounge rectangular
American Overseas Airlines - main deck round, lounge rectangular
Northwest - all rectangular
United - main deck rectangular, lounge round

BOAC also acquired 4 B377s ordered by SAS but not taken up. They had round windows on both decks like Pan Am's. UA also sold their B377s to BOAC in 1954 so BOAC's fleet then included B377s with 3 different window layouts. Pan Am had 2 layouts after their merger with AOA. There were also several interior layouts, galley locations etc.

The two simplest configurations below, NW with rectangular windows on both decks, and Pan Am with round windows throughout (can't see the lounge windows).


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HAWK21M
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:24 am

Tough to be true.The B737 Cabin Window shape has been the same.
Did you view it from Inside or outside.
Could it be the Sidewall panel gave that appearence.
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113312
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:14 pm

Perhaps the interior wall panel but certainly not the window itself.
 
Arrow
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:44 pm

The absolute best windows are those big, oval picture windows on the old Viscounts. Interesting development when you consider the Comet's square windows -- I think the Viscount design long pre-dates the Comet troubles.
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Viscount724
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:22 pm

Quoting cschleic (Reply 13):
Plus the cost of a change like that wouldn't be something Boeing would undertake.

Then why did Boeing go to the expense of changing the windows on the 767-400 to match those on the 777? That cost had to be spread over only 38 aircraft. You would also think that the only 764 customers, DL and CO, would have preferred the same windows as on their other 767 models to simpliify maintenance. Also makes the product more consistent for passengers.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:27 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
Then why did Boeing go to the expense of changing the windows on the 767-400 to match those on the 777?

That may actually have been the cheaper option. If the -400 was a big enough stretch to require redesigning the window belt anyway (I don't know that it was, but it's possible), then stealing the 777 window belt was probably easier than redesigning a new one explicitely for the 767.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
You would also think that the only 764 customers, DL and CO, would have preferred the same windows as on their other 767 models to simpliify maintenance.

As 777 customers, I don't think DL and CO would care, since they already have those windows in their system.

Tom.
 
474218
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:42 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
Then why did Boeing go to the expense of changing the windows on the 767-400 to match those on the 777? That cost had to be spread over only 38 aircraft. You would also think that the only 764 customers, DL and CO, would have preferred the same windows as on their other 767 models to simpliify maintenance. Also makes the product more consistent for passengers.
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 20):
As 777 customers, I don't think DL and CO would care, since they already have those windows in their system.

Since the windows and the window frames are made to fit the contour of the fuselage I don't see how the 777 and 767-400 can use the same windows.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:27 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 21):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
Then why did Boeing go to the expense of changing the windows on the 767-400 to match those on the 777? That cost had to be spread over only 38 aircraft. You would also think that the only 764 customers, DL and CO, would have preferred the same windows as on their other 767 models to simpliify maintenance. Also makes the product more consistent for passengers.
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 20):
As 777 customers, I don't think DL and CO would care, since they already have those windows in their system.

Since the windows and the window frames are made to fit the contour of the fuselage I don't see how the 777 and 767-400 can use the same windows.

Note excerpt below from following Boeing document describing the 767-400.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aer...zine/aero_03/textonly/ps01txt.html

The largest single weight change resulted from the incorporation of a new stringerless passenger window reinforcement design. The windows on the 767-300ER are rectangular, and a Boeing study showed a potential weight savings of more than 630 lb (286 kg) through the adoption of the same oval-shaped passenger window used in the 777. The support structure for this new window was made simpler and lighter by eliminating the body skin stringers and using forgings.
 
474218
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:25 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):
The largest single weight change resulted from the incorporation of a new stringerless passenger window reinforcement design. The windows on the 767-300ER are rectangular, and a Boeing study showed a potential weight savings of more than 630 lb (286 kg) through the adoption of the same oval-shaped passenger window used in the 777. The support structure for this new window was made simpler and lighter by eliminating the body skin stringers and using forgings.

The 777 is 21 feet in diameter the 767 is 16 feet. I don't see how they could use the same windows, since the window are curved to match the fuselage diameter.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:54 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 23):
The 777 is 21 feet in diameter the 767 is 16 feet. I don't see how they could use the same windows, since the window are curved to match the fuselage diameter.

The 767 fuselage isn't perfectly circular. It's entirely possible the radius of curvature of the window is the same between the two aircraft.

Tom.
 
474218
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RE: Squared Windows On Newer 739's?

Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:08 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 24):
The 767 fuselage isn't perfectly circular. It's entirely possible the radius of curvature of the window is the same between the two aircraft.

Correct, I forgot about Boeings "oval" fuselage?

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