September11
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Photo: NW Seats On EA DC-7?

Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:32 pm

Please take a look at picture below. A cabin view of Eastern DC-7 at a museum.. Did these seats come from Northwest?


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Photo © Dan Brownlee

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411A
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RE: Photo: NW Seats On EA DC-7?

Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:31 pm

Hard to tell, however, they don't look like the standard Weber seats that were fitted to many DC-7's that I flew (as a First Officer) , long ago.
In addition, that certainly is not a standard Douglas passenger cabin arrangement , for example, no hat racks.
Looks more like a freighter interior that was devised later on to be a quick-change arrangement, IE, for passenger use at times, freighter otherwise.
I flew a DC-7CF that had this particular arrangement, long ago.
 
georgiaame
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RE: Photo: NW Seats On EA DC-7?

Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:56 pm

In 1961, I flew NW Detroit to Portland via Spokane. The aircraft was significantly wider than the DC-6 we flew from Newark to Pittsburgh to Detroit. Seating was 3-2 in economy. That would be my last flight until 1969, when I flew an El Al B-707, non stop JFK to Tel Aviv, then the longest commercial non stop world wide. Or so we were told. That was a very spacious 3-3 arrangement. My has travel evolved!
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
Viscount724
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RE: Photo: NW Seats On EA DC-7?

Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:27 pm

Quoting 411A (Reply 1):
Looks more like a freighter interior that was devised later on to be a quick-change arrangement, IE, for passenger use at times, freighter otherwise.
Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 2):
In 1961, I flew NW Detroit to Portland via Spokane. The aircraft was significantly wider than the DC-6 we flew from Newark to Pittsburgh to Detroit.

If you're referring to the DC-7, the cabin width was exactly the same as the DC-6 (and DC-4).
 
KingAir200
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RE: Photo: NW Seats On EA DC-7?

Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:02 pm

Quoting September11 (Thread starter):
Did these seats come from Northwest?

They definitely look like it. The seat covers are the same pattern that NW used for years.
 
srbmod
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RE: Photo: NW Seats On EA DC-7?

Wed May 05, 2010 10:30 pm

Quoting 411A (Reply 1):
In addition, that certainly is not a standard Douglas passenger cabin arrangement , for example, no hat racks.
Looks more like a freighter interior that was devised later on to be a quick-change arrangement, IE, for passenger use at times, freighter otherwise.

The a/c in question was never converted into a freighter, as after leaving the Eastern fleet, it operated for a few years with some travel clubs before being parked for 30 years at STP. Here's an interior shot of it prior to being restored:


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Photo © Ralph M. Pettersen



Here's some earlier work on the restoration:


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Photo © Ralph M. Pettersen

 
sparky35805
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RE: Photo: NW Seats On EA DC-7?

Wed May 12, 2010 8:56 pm

That aircraft never operated in first class configuration with Eastern.It was delivered in 90 seat Falcon Super Coach configuration.The last 20 of a 50 aircraft order were Falcon Super Coaches.
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longhauler
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RE: Photo: NW Seats On EA DC-7?

Thu May 13, 2010 1:46 pm

Quoting sparky35805 (Reply 6):
That aircraft never operated in first class configuration with Eastern.It was delivered in 90 seat Falcon Super Coach configuration



That would make sense, as the interior picture in reply 5 above, shows an Eastern Air Lines interior of the mid 1950s. The seat and curtain fabrics were the ones used in their aircraft at the time ... DC-6, L1049, DC-7, in fact the L188 when delivered was equipped the same.

What I find curious, is that the restorers were presented with what could be considered the hardest to find when restoring an airliner interior ... namely the wall panels, the overhead racks and the passenger service units. That being the case then, why were none used in restoration? The new wall panels look like they were machined to fit, ignoring overhead racks all together. While it didn't look like a freighter when they started, it sure does when they finished!

I recall when the fate of the exTCA L1049G on the north end of Toronto was in the balance. A lot of potential new owners were not looking at the airframe or engines, they looked at the interior and could not believe their luck when they saw ... wall panels, overhead racks, window frames, PSUs, galley units, lavatory fittings, etc etc etc .. THAT is the hardest to find!

With regard to the seats. I would imagine the old 1950s seats shown above would not be legal for carrying passengers any more.
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TZTriStar500
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RE: Photo: NW Seats On EA DC-7?

Thu May 13, 2010 4:20 pm

Quoting Longhauler (Reply 7):
That would make sense, as the interior picture in reply 5 above, shows an Eastern Air Lines interior of the mid 1950s. The seat and curtain fabrics were the ones used in their aircraft at the time ... DC-6, L1049, DC-7, in fact the L188 when delivered was equipped the same.

What I find curious, is that the restorers were presented with what could be considered the hardest to find when restoring an airliner interior ... namely the wall panels, the overhead racks and the passenger service units. That being the case then, why were none used in restoration? The new wall panels look like they were machined to fit, ignoring overhead racks all together. While it didn't look like a freighter when they started, it sure does when they finished!

I recall when the fate of the exTCA L1049G on the north end of Toronto was in the balance. A lot of potential new owners were not looking at the airframe or engines, they looked at the interior and could not believe their luck when they saw ... wall panels, overhead racks, window frames, PSUs, galley units, lavatory fittings, etc etc etc .. THAT is the hardest to find!

With regard to the seats. I would imagine the old 1950s seats shown above would not be legal for carrying passengers any more.

This aircraft is owned by the Historical Flight Foundation http://www.historicalflightfoundation.com/ and is to be operated as a Part 125 travel club which will allow members to fly on it. While the 'purest' in me would love to have seen the original interior used and restored, it was simply too expensive and/or not technically feasible and still allow carriage of passengers.

In order to allow passenger carriage, some of the current regulations must be met along with some exemptions and the original interior (seats, overhead racks, and lavatories) did not meet them or required very expensive overhaul. I had heard the cost to restore the original seats would have been very expensive and require new fabric and cushions that meet current flammability standards (a cost that cannot be borne by the foundation at this time). While not the most authentic, the quickest way was to re-use some ex-NW DC-9 doubles in place of the originals and install a new interior liner without the racks. The aircraft also uses two ex-NW DC-9 lavs in place of the originals.

It comes down to would one rather see N836D restored completely authentic and grounded as a museum piece or compromise a bit and get a chance to fly on a DC-7B in 2010 and beyond up in the air where she belongs? I think most on here would choose the latter.

I edited this to add that they have kept all of the original seats and furnishings so that they can be re-installed at a later date and certainly some day when she becomes a permanently grounded museum piece.

[Edited 2010-05-13 09:32:37]
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Photo: NW Seats On EA DC-7?

Thu May 13, 2010 4:55 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 8):
It comes down to would one rather see N836D restored completely authentic and grounded as a museum piece or compromise a bit and get a chance to fly on a DC-7B in 2010 and beyond up in the air where she belongs? I think most on here would choose the latter.



I don't disagree for a second. And as I have had the opportunity to fly on an L749A, L1049H, DC-4 and a DC-6B, in the last 10 or so years, I wholeheartedly agree with the decision process. I am glad to hear the original interior has been saved for possible use.

Just out of curiosity ... while I can certainly see that the seats/seat covers would no longer be legal, what was the issue with the original wall panels and overhead racks?
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: Photo: NW Seats On EA DC-7?

Thu May 13, 2010 7:05 pm

Quoting Longhauler (Reply 9):
Just out of curiosity ... while I can certainly see that the seats/seat covers would no longer be legal, what was the issue with the original wall panels and overhead racks?

That I do not have complete answers to this, but I would guess they were in bad shape requiring extensive refurbishment and then covering in current flammability standard materials. This can be very expensive if burn testing has to be done.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.

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