c5load
Topic Author
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I Want A Job At Boeing

Sat May 22, 2010 2:10 am

I will be finishing school in about 2 yrs and graduating with a BS in Pro Aeronautics, and would like to work for Boeing. What kind of position can I try and get with that? I know I can't start right at the top (But it'd be cool   ), then again I don't want to start somewhere where average joe with a high school diploma works. Don't think I'm sounding smug or uptight, it's just that my wife holds a degree in french and there ain't a whole hoot she can do with me being in the military! I just want to be able to be in a decent paying position where my education will come in handy. Thanks for your input.
"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
 
scrubbsywg
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sat May 22, 2010 3:49 am

Is pro-aeronautics like an engineering degree? What kind of work have you done? My impression of boeing is they wouldn't hire many 'green' employees. having some real world aeronautics experience will be invaluable to you, as with most engineering type disciplines where a degree is kind of more of a standard 'requirement' than the real skills they actually seek.
 
474218
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sat May 22, 2010 4:08 am

I have no idea what "Pro Aeronautics" includes but most OEM hire collage graduates, regardless of their major, into entry level position. No major company will hire someone right out of school and put them in a senior position, there are just too many experienced engineers looking for work.

If I was just starting out I would concentrate on stress engineering, they seem to always be In demand.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sat May 22, 2010 4:15 am

Quoting scrubbsywg (Reply 1):
Is pro-aeronautics like an engineering degree?

If the degree is like what my school's program was, then he's pretty much a pilot, without a pilot's license. Not a wise career choice, IMO.
 
BMI727
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sat May 22, 2010 5:05 am

As far as I know, most of the pilots at Boeing are pretty experienced and many are ex-military. I remember reading the bios of some 787 program pilots and they were all pretty much experienced sticks who made it to the top. I think one was involved with the F-22.

Anyway, Boeing is considered pretty difficult to get into for engineering as well. Supposedly any resume with a sub 3.0 GPA gets tossed into the bin immediately. But they also supposedly pay new engineers $60k a year, which isn't too bad for four years (if you're lucky) of crap in college.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sat May 22, 2010 7:14 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
But they also supposedly pay new engineers $60k a year, which isn't too bad for four years (if you're lucky) of crap in college.

That's VERY decent in my eyes.

That's one thing that REALLY grinds my gears. An engineer from my same school, who paid less for his degree will earn up to 4 times more than us pilots graduating from there when getting a job straight out of college. When I graduated there were a couple of engineers who got picked up right away by Lockheed. The one guy's first paycheck was $90K    And this is not a rumor, it's 100% verifiable as my school does surveys on their graduates and verifies how well they're doing.

Us pilots, heh, we get excited if we get to fly and RJ for $30K.

Not fair at all IMO, but that's supply and demand I guess  
 
BMI727
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sat May 22, 2010 7:44 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 5):
Not fair at all IMO, but that's supply and demand I guess

Pretty much. Convincing people to fly and work for the mythical 10 days a month while jetting around the world is a bit easier than convincing people to have to do actual school work for four years. All that business school crap about only having classes Tuesday through Thursday and not starting till noon doesn't happen for engineers. As they say, you have work, sleep and fun. Pick two.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
FredT
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sat May 22, 2010 8:02 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 5):
That's one thing that REALLY grinds my gears. An engineer from my same school, who paid less for his degree will earn up to 4 times more than us pilots graduating from there when getting a job straight out of college.

Then again, there's the time invested. Can't see any engineering degree being less than three years, whereas google tells me you can go from the street to frozen ATPL in a little more than one year on an integrated program. By the time the engineer graduates, you'll be two years of salary up and should have had a raise or two.

I also think there are more potential candidates for pilot training than for engineering.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 5):
Us pilots, heh, we get excited if we get to fly and RJ for $30K.

Yeah, you should. I mean, the way the job market is going, you'll have to pay that amount for a right seat in a piston twin op soon...

(For a moment I misunderstood and thought you meant actually getting paid $30K to fly, but we know that just ain't happening anymore  )
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sat May 22, 2010 4:31 pm

Quoting FredT (Reply 7):
Can't see any engineering degree being less than three years, whereas google tells me you can go from the street to frozen ATPL in a little more than one year on an integrated program.

Well of course, you can go to those pilot factories and do it the quick and easy way. But I was talking about university programs where it takes 4 years at least and you get a bachelors degree. It took me 5 years in my case.

Quoting FredT (Reply 7):

(For a moment I misunderstood and thought you meant actually getting paid $30K to fly, but we know that just ain't happening anymore

Actually that is what I meant. That's what happens when I post at 1am.   
 
roseflyer
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sat May 22, 2010 5:10 pm

Not sure what you are looking for, but if you going to boeing.com/careers, you can see every job posted and they all list the requirements.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 2):
No major company will hire someone right out of school and put them in a senior position, there are just too many experienced engineers looking for work.

While not a senior position, an entry engineer will be put to work right with the more senior engineers to learn and develop. The first 2-5 years spent as an engineer is usually about learning and gaining experience. It takes quite a while to develop an engineer to his or her full capabilities. There is a reason why the licensing process for engineers is a long process.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):

Anyway, Boeing is considered pretty difficult to get into for engineering as well. Supposedly any resume with a sub 3.0 GPA gets tossed into the bin immediately. But they also supposedly pay new engineers $60k a year, which isn't too bad for four years (if you're lucky) of crap in college.

Boeing in general is a very competitive company to get a job for. They get hundreds of thousands of applications every year just like most of the other top competitive technical companies in the United States like Microsoft, Apple, Google, Exxon Mobile, GE, Proctor & Gamble etc.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
BMI727
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sat May 22, 2010 7:04 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 9):
There is a reason why the licensing process for engineers is a long process.

How many actually bother getting licensed? Since aircraft are sold across state lines, professional engineer rules don't apply do they?
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
roseflyer
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sat May 22, 2010 8:27 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):

How many actually bother getting licensed? Since aircraft are sold across state lines, professional engineer rules don't apply do they?

At most large companies, engineers do not need to be licensed. However, the process still indicates the skills necessary to be a professional engineer even though most engineers at Boeing are not licensed.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
eskimotail
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sun May 23, 2010 1:37 am

FROM A BOEING INSIDER:
AND AN AVERAGE JOE HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATE:
Less than 3 years with Boeing, 21 years military aircraft maintenance and flight crew experience, 10 years airline line maintenance experience. Made 150K plus with Boeing in 2009 in my 2nd year of employment. Not sure what a Pro Aeronautics degree is but your Pro-Aeronautics degree will not get you in a Boeing cockpit. No way, no how. The most junior pilot I have seen in a Boeing cockpit was an 8 year Horizon Air pilot, with prior military flight time, with her ATP and 737 type rating in her pocket. It will get you considered for the jobs that require or desire degrees, ie Planners, Engineering Technicians, etc. While most entry and mid level Boeing Engineers are not licensed, the actual engineering jobs require degrees from ABET accredited institutions. Check out Boeing.com. On the military flight line in Seattle that I work the Boeing pilots are all cross rated in 737 commercial variants, the AEWC variant, the 757 flying test bed, and a few in the E-3 AWACS. In addition to these planes they will fly the 737 derived P8A and the chase T-33s and T-38. They are required to fly alongside the military pilots of the various programs. A lot of experience and incredible maturity required to get by in this environment. My crew consists mostly of Aviation Maintenance Technicians (most with A and Ps) of which 1 is a furloughed Horizon Air F.O., 1 is a furloughed ExpressJet F.O. that made double their airline wages their first year or two with Boeing. AMTS start at $27 plus, top out at $37 plus in 6 years and get at will O.T.

Employment at Boeing is a beast that nobody can comprehend from the outside. Great work, great experience, great opportunities, leading edge programs and equipment, but a very large company, challenged by legacy ideas and processes. Best advice if you want to fly, fly somewhere else, get your time and come back in 8-10 years. If you just want to work at Boeing, get inside, listen, learn, even from the High School graduates, and move up once you understand the hierarchy and opportunities. Oh by the way, once in, unlimited, unrestricted 100% tuition/fees/books assistance.

Good luck, post again if you want more info.
 
BMI727
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sun May 23, 2010 3:44 am

Quoting Eskimotail (Reply 12):
While most entry and mid level Boeing Engineers are not licensed, the actual engineering jobs require degrees from ABET accredited institutions.

That isn't too hard to find, since most any 4 year institution probably has ABET accreditation. Your local community college's program to train future JiffyLube techs, probably doesn't.

I would agree that pro aeronautics would probably be enough to work on the assembly line or some other jobs, but definitely won't get a pilot or engineering job.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
tdscanuck
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sun May 23, 2010 4:24 am

Quoting c5load (Thread starter):
What kind of position can I try and get with that?

If it's an ABET degree, any Level 1 engineering job...lots and lots of folks start in stress and planning.

Quoting c5load (Thread starter):
I don't want to start somewhere where average joe with a high school diploma works.

If you have a degree, that's unlikely to happen unless you want it to.

Quoting scrubbsywg (Reply 1):
My impression of boeing is they wouldn't hire many 'green' employees.

They hire tons of direct-from-school employees...just not to higher level positions. In a company of 160000+ people, you need a lot of people to just get the work done.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
I remember reading the bios of some 787 program pilots and they were all pretty much experienced sticks who made it to the top. I think one was involved with the F-22.

That would be Randy Neville:
http://www.newairplane.com/dreamlinerfirstflight/pilotbios.html

He's the high-time F-22 pilot on the planet, even now.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 5):
That's one thing that REALLY grinds my gears. An engineer from my same school, who paid less for his degree will earn up to 4 times more than us pilots graduating from there when getting a job straight out of college.

Lots more folks want to be pilots than want to be aero engineers. It comes out in the job opportunities and pay.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
How many actually bother getting licensed? Since aircraft are sold across state lines, professional engineer rules don't apply do they?

Not really. Any large company will have a few designated professional engineers to stamp/sign stuff when needed, but by and large it's totally irrelevant.

Quoting Eskimotail (Reply 12):
Oh by the way, once in, unlimited, unrestricted 100% tuition/fees/books assistance.

That depends on which union you're in. They recently changed that policy for the non-union folks, and some of the unions. It's still a good program, but not as generous as it once was.

Tom.
 
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kanban
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sun May 23, 2010 5:17 am

Until we understand what this degree is.. it's hard to tell. if as some suggest it's similar to a pilot without a licene, there's work in cockpit doing functional and sytem test

give us more to go on and what practical experience you have. Then you'll have suggestions up to your eyebrows.
 
FredT
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sun May 23, 2010 7:09 am

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 8):
Well of course, you can go to those pilot factories and do it the quick and easy way. But I was talking about university programs where it takes 4 years at least and you get a bachelors degree. It took me 5 years in my case.

Well, one year is enough qualification for pilot jobs, so that's the education they companies will pay for when they require someone to fly one of their aircraft. You're competing on the same job market as the one year ATPLs, after all. If you want more, you need to find a more qualified position which requires the knowledge you acquired through those additional three or four years to apply for.
I thought I was doing good trying to avoid those airport hotels... and look at me now.
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sun May 23, 2010 6:43 pm

Is this the Pro Aeronautics degree that you will be getting?

http://worldwide.erau.edu/degrees-pr...uate/professional-aeronautics.html
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
BMI727
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sun May 23, 2010 7:50 pm

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 17):
Is this the Pro Aeronautics degree that you will be getting?

Interesting. So am I missing something or is this basically a program for guys who have done the pilot factory thing and are realizing that they need some sort of college degree for a lot of jobs? If so, why would they want to do this instead of something like business or accounting that would give them more options if flying jobs are hard to come by?
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
aeroweanie
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Sun May 23, 2010 8:58 pm

Last I heard, Boeing has a hiring freeze. Lots of money is going out on the 787 and 747-8, so they are tightening their belts.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 12:08 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):
So am I missing something or is this basically a program for guys who have done the pilot factory thing and are realizing that they need some sort of college degree for a lot of jobs?

As I said earlier (seeing DL_Mech's link is from my school):

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 3):
If the degree is like what my school's program was, then he's pretty much a pilot, without a pilot's license. Not a wise career choice, IMO.

The not-so-open-electives tend to be pilot groundschools, but that may have changed since I graduated.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):
If so, why would they want to do this instead of something like business or accounting that would give them more options if flying jobs are hard to come by?

I don't know if this is C5load's case or even the same school he goes to, but I do know that at my school those doing Pro Aeronautics were looked down upon as every one of them had initially started in the Aero Science (pilot) degree, but then switched to Pro Aero, which is basically Aero Science but without the flying. In other words, its for those people that didn't cut it for flying, or, what happened more often than not, that didn't put the effort into it. I didn't know of anybody doing that degree from scratch, they were always switchovers.

[Edited 2010-05-23 17:13:00]
 
474218
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 1:08 am

When I read topics like this I have to ask myself .... what are young people thinking? Why would anyone pay to go to a "diploma mill" when they can get the training and experience they need for a future career and get paid at the same time in the military? If you still think the degree will get you the job you desire, the GI Bill will pay for it. All around the military is a win win situation.
 
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kanban
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 1:38 am

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 17):
Is this the Pro Aeronautics degree that you will be getting?

http://worldwide.erau.edu/degrees-pr....html




Read though the above site... sorry won't help much... Boeing has a cozy relationship with the school, however the degree is too general for any specific job... What Boeing will look at is you years working with aircraft and the fact you stuck with both your service time and the time to complete the course. not many loadmaster opportunities at Boeing... study things like the Toyota Production System, Just in Time Manufacturing and Kanban.. (now you know where my screen name comes from), read up on world class manufacturing, team building, manufacturing engineering, industrial engineering, etc... if you want into the manufacturing world in a capacity other than mechanic... .then be prepared to do grunt work for 5 years before you can apply your knowledge
 
eskimotail
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 1:39 am

Quoting Aeroweanie (Reply 19):
Last I heard, Boeing has a hiring freeze. Lots of money is going out on the 787 and 747-8, so they are tightening their belts.


Oh so false: There is not/has not been a wholesale hiring freeze. Some programs freeze when they hit their requirement apogee, but the current business climate for Boeing shows many unmet needs right now and continued hiring going forward. So much money is going out the door to support 87 and 47-8 that they are putting cash in the bank every quarter. The last I heard was 10 Billion cash reserve. I could be wrong on that number. Don't forget the cash income is around 300 million a week. Sure that is not profit but cash carries a lot of weight, and imagine the deductions they get to take.

In my career field there are currently over 100 unfilled Aviation Maintenance Technician and/or Inspectors positions in Puget Sound right now. These are posted and funded, waiting for people to get hired. They have hired over 1,000 Aviation Maintenance Technicians in Puget Sound since my hire date. (August 2007)
There are approx a dozen unfilled Aviation Maintenance Technicians and/or Inspectors positions in Maryland right now.
There are currently openings for about a dozen Flight Line Managers in Puget Sound.
There are currently openings for several Flight Line Manager positions in Maryland
Manufacturing Engineers (convert drawings to written work orders) are being hired by the dozens weekly around the country. Puget Sound, Long Beach, Philadelphia, St Louis, etc. These do not require college degrees.
Industrial Engineers (project planners, project coordination, tooling research and acquisition, etc) are being hired at a fair clip.
Charleston is hiring about 100 a week right now in all crafts, and will continue that pace for approx the next year.

The Boeing employment site shows hundreds of jobs posted, funded, being filled. This does not include the external contractors that are coming on to support the growth programs.

The flight line I currently work at, will have to grow from about 30 right now to over 330 in the next 2 years. This is just the technicians, (electricians, mechanics, structural mechanics, A&P mechanics) that will actually touch the product. This 330 number does not include the infrastructure to support those 330 technicians. I estimate that requirement at 1.5 or 2 to 1 for planners, coordinators, management, quality, stores, etc. The projected program growth is so strong that Rentons 3 assembly lines will not be able to handle the production, and within 3 to 4 years you will probably see 737 type aircraft being built at Boeing Field again

Boeing is trying to get away from having/hiring employees that do not actually touch or impact the product. ie plant maintenance, IT, stock room, stock handling, firefighters, security, etc. But technical, touch labor prognosis is good and hiring is active.
 
roseflyer
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 2:43 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):

That isn't too hard to find, since most any 4 year institution probably has ABET accreditation.

While ABET accreditation is available at many universities in the United States, it depends on what the program is. It needs to be a genuine degree program with the correct curriculum to be adequate. Electrical, Mechanical and Aeronautical are the most common degrees for engineers at Boeing.

Quoting Aeroweanie (Reply 19):
Last I heard, Boeing has a hiring freeze. Lots of money is going out on the 787 and 747-8, so they are tightening their belts.

Defense right now is not hiring since they are going through layoffs, but commercial airplanes is hiring. If you want more info on engineering jobs at Boeing, the engineers' union site is a great resource: www.speea.org
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 4:03 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 21):
Why would anyone pay to go to a "diploma mill" when they can get the training and experience they need for a future career and get paid at the same time in the military? If you still think the degree will get you the job you desire, the GI Bill will pay for it. All around the military is a win win situation.

Maybe because not everybody wants to be Uncle Sam's slave, or risk getting shot, or going through boot camp, or risk having your dreams shattered of becoming a fighter pilot when they relegate you to a desk job for what seems like eternity.
 
474218
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 4:33 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 25):
Maybe because not everybody wants to be Uncle Sam's slave, or risk getting shot, or going through boot camp, or risk having your dreams shattered of becoming a fighter pilot when they relegate you to a desk job for what seems like eternity.


Spoken like a true patriot. Oh wait, your the guy that runs to Mexico when the going gets tough.

Millions of people join the military and never get anywhere near a combat zone.

If you can't make it through boot camp you will not amount to much in civilian life.

You will never get better training than you will in the military. When I was a training instructor at an OEM one of the other instructors had retired from the Navy. One of his comment was that we were always under pressure to make our classes shorter. While in the Navy they were always under pressure to add more to their classes.

I would rather sit behind a desk working than sit on my couch collecting unemployment checks.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 5:08 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 20):
I don't know if this is C5load's case or even the same school he goes to, but I do know that at my school those doing Pro Aeronautics were looked down upon as every one of them had initially started in the Aero Science (pilot) degree, but then switched to Pro Aero, which is basically Aero Science but without the flying. In other words, its for those people that didn't cut it for flying, or, what happened more often than not, that didn't put the effort into it. I didn't know of anybody doing that degree from scratch, they were always switchovers.

BS. Those of us in the campus based form of the degree (Aeronuatics) did so because it saves money. You get the degree, but you aren't stuck with flying at the school. By not flying at the school, you can save money and get more flight time at the same time. The good thing is, more and more people are figuring it out, and the program is starting to grow. There really is no reason to pay the absurd amount of more to fly at the school itself, when you can often get better flight instruction at lower prices just 2 minute away. The only people who badmouth the degree are the ones that are oblivious to the current state of the pilot market, and believe that having a degree from ERAU will automatically get them a job at FedEx.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
BMI727
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 5:12 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 27):
By not flying at the school, you can save money and get more flight time at the same time.

So then what is the attraction of a flying degree without flying when airlines really don't care what an applicant's college degree is, as long as they have one? Why is that better than a degree that is applicable in another field when the aviation job market is in the crapper?
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 5:56 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 26):
Spoken like a true patriot. Oh wait, your the guy that runs to Mexico when the going gets tough.

So sue me  

My grandpa was a general. I had enough talks about patriotism from him, thank you.

I knew many ROTC kids at my school and have several enlisted friends. Not one of them did it out of patriotism or whatever you want to call it, nor did they say much good things about their experience, but they did it because of need.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 27):

BS. Those of us in the campus based form of the degree (Aeronuatics) did so because it saves money.

Well that's you then. But all the people I knew personally (10+ of them) that did it were AS dropouts.

I'm not saying they're any worse, or AS is any better, its just what I've seen.

[Edited 2010-05-24 10:56:54]
 
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bikerthai
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 6:01 pm

If you will graduate in 2 years, you will have time to update your curriculum to make you more desirable for Boeing.

Is this Pro Aeronautic and Engineering Degree? If yes then you are on the right track. If not then consider switching over to and Engineering Program.

As mentioned above, STRESS or Structure Analysis is always a commodity. When everyone is getting laid off, somehow, its the Structure Analyst gets retained. Personally I would go crazy being a stress weenie, but some folks like it. Take structure analysis courses including finite element modeling and analysis. This will look good on your transcript.

The second option is take courses in Structure Design, similar to a Mechanical Engineering degree.

Other courses to take would be composite design and manufacturing, material science (both metals and composites).

Your time in the military will put you in good with the company and could count as experience in getting you a higher starting salary than the rest of your graduating class.

Too late this summer, but consider applying for a summer internship next summer. It would definitely get you a foot in the door. Most summer intern (with any skill) usually have a position available for them if they chose. Some finds Boeing too boring. I think Boeing even pay some interns!

Boeing is big . . . once inside, you will find many opportunities to move to job more suitable to your talent or taste. And I still think Boeing Medical Plan is top notch . . . specially if you have a family!!

bikerthai
Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
 
StuckInCA
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 6:25 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 30):
If you will graduate in 2 years, you will have time to update your curriculum to make you more desirable for Boeing.

Is this Pro Aeronautic and Engineering Degree? If yes then you are on the right track. If not then consider switching over to and Engineering Program.

Ugh. Any respectable Engineering degree isn't going to be something you switch into in your last two years and wrap up. To put it in perspective, my BSME required 180 units. Most Mechanical Engineering courses were 3 and sometimes 4 units. My roommate got an Economics degree. 60 units. Most classes were 5 units. Of course he needed more units to graduate, but he filled those with complete fluff.

I wouldn't want to dissuade anyone from pursuing an Engineering degree, but I'm just trying to point out that it's not like switching from History to American Literature or something. Each class builds on the next starting from year 1.

Here's my advice (not a Boeing employee): Get trained in technical drawing (drafting) and 3d modeling. CATIA if possible. Then you can probably land some sort of drafting job and Boeing. If you then want an Engineering degree, get one on their dime after work.
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 6:48 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 29):
Well that's you then. But all the people I knew personally (10+ of them) that did it were AS dropouts.

I'm not saying they're any worse, or AS is any better, its just what I've seen.

Dropout isn't exactly the word I'd use, but I suppose some might. At one point, I was in the AS program, but realized quickly that if I'm on the path to a dead end degree, I might as well save some money while I was at it. Regardless, I don't think either program is automatically better than the other. In AS, you are very much limited as to what you can take, whereas Aeronautics gives you the option for up to 3 minors. Either way, neither is very good for much other than flying.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
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bikerthai
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 6:52 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 31):
Any respectable Engineering degree isn't going to be something you switch into in your last two years and wrap up. To put it in perspective, my BSME required 180 units.



Things may have changed since my days at the U of W Aeronautical. With luck and heavy class load, I graduated with 182 units (two over minimum) in 2 years and a summer (the summer was for getting the electives out of the way).
  

Point is . . . it would be easier to get into Boeing with an Engineering Degrees. Boeing doesn't care which Engineering field, once you are in, they will train you to do it the "Boeing Way". Then you are on your way to become a Boeing Slave for life.   

bikerthai
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Stratofortress
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 6:53 pm

- What do you want to do exactly? Anything?
- Are you willing to move and to where?
- What experience and and schooling do you have? (Seems that nobody is really sure what your degree entails)

Boeing is a big place with just about every profession represented. There are certain jobs where military background goes a long way.
Forever New Frontiers
 
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bikerthai
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 7:06 pm



Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 31):
Here's my advice (not a Boeing employee): Get trained in technical drawing (drafting) and 3d modeling. CATIA if possible. Then you can probably land some sort of drafting job and Boeing. If you then want an Engineering degree, get one on their dime after work.




This is actually good advice.

If Pro-Aeronautics is not an Engineering Degree, then you have a good shot at a Tech/Designer position.

Tech/Designers are not strictly drafters . . . they perform many function similar to to an Engineer. An experienced Tech/Designer can become a Lead in Boeing with Engineers as subordinates. But because they do not have an Engineering Degree with an accredited institution recognized by Boeing, they fall under different labor code with lower pay for comparable skills.

Start learning CAD/CATIA right now is a good bet. Takes 3-5 years to truly be proficient ant CAD designing.
I believe Dassaut has a program where college students can buy CATIA V5 for cheap. Not much functionalities, but good for starters.

bikerthai

edited to credit the correct quote

[Edited 2010-05-24 12:10:54]
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c5load
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 7:40 pm

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 30):
Is this Pro Aeronautic and Engineering Degree? If yes then you are on the right track. If not then consider switching over to and Engineering Program.

AFAIK, my degree is simply a Prof. Aeronautics degree. Is it possible to perhaps minor in something related to engineering and go that route? I'm already halfway through and I don't think the military will pay for me to back out and try for another degree program. I would love to be a pilot, but I know the possibility of that is nill, so I'm trying other avenues in hopes of getting in the door at an aviation or airplane company to further my experience.

Quoting Stratofortress (Reply 34):
- What do you want to do exactly? Anything?
- Are you willing to move and to where?
- What experience and and schooling do you have? (Seems that nobody is really sure what your degree entails)

I'm willing to to just about anything they want me to do as long as I can get my foot in the door. But I would rather not start out as a back office cashier for the parts dept, but be in a position where my military supervisory experience and education would come into use.

Taken from the Embry-Riddle University website:
The Aeronautics degree was conceived and developed specifically for people who work or have worked in aviation careers. The curriculum was designed to build upon the aviation knowledge and skill students bring with them from their training and experience. The combination of a student's aviation learning and the required and elective courses in Aeronautical Science, Business, Computer Science, Economics, Communication, Humanities, Social Science, Mathematics, Physical Science, along with professional development, prepare graduates for career growth and increased responsibility.

[Edited 2010-05-24 12:51:05]
"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 7:47 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 32):

Dropout isn't exactly the word I'd use, but I suppose some might. At one point, I was in the AS program, but realized quickly that if I'm on the path to a dead end degree, I might as well save some money while I was at it. Regardless, I don't think either program is automatically better than the other. In AS, you are very much limited as to what you can take, whereas Aeronautics gives you the option for up to 3 minors. Either way, neither is very good for much other than flying.

Probably a poor choice of words on my part in hindsight. But I agree with your point.
 
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 7:51 pm

Quoting c5load (Reply 36):
can get my foot in the door



Embry-Riddle has a good working relationship with Boeing. Your local advisor may be more useful in pointing you in the right direction.

Contacts can be found at Boeing College Relation Rep.

http://hr.web.boeing.com/index.aspx?com=29&id=131

Brian W, Hoefig is a good point of contact. Time to rub some elbows . . .

Good Luck

bikerthai
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DiamondFlyer
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 8:10 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 37):

Probably a poor choice of words on my part in hindsight. But I agree with your point.

I do suppose it could be quite different in Prescott. I'm not real familiar with the program out there, other than I know that you guys don't have near as much diversity in classes you can take. I know that I've talked to the academic advisor down here who at one point helped to write the program (Aeronautics) and it was implied to me that it was meant to be another path for people who didn't want to deal the with BS of flying at the school. I think that leaves a lot to be said about the flight training, but I digress.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 8:44 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 39):
I know that I've talked to the academic advisor down here who at one point helped to write the program (Aeronautics) and it was implied to me that it was meant to be another path for people who didn't want to deal the with BS of flying at the school. I think that leaves a lot to be said about the flight training, but I digress.

That's why most of the AS quitters I knew at PRC went that route. They all complained the training was "too tough" "not fun" "very demanding". My response to them was always "Just WHAT makes you think the airlines will be any easier?"

At any rate, those kids all flew on the other side of the field, and they ended up getting shafted either way BIG TIME in the end:

http://www.aviationtoday.com/asw/top...Aire-Aviation-with-Fine_67860.html

http://avstop.com/news_april_2010/fa...ty_against_north-aire_aviation.htm

Anyways, back on topic...

C5, you haven't even told us what school you go to, but I'm guessing you're doing the Extended Campus ERAU thingy?

Additionally...

Quoting c5load (Reply 36):

AFAIK, my degree is simply a Prof. Aeronautics degree. Is it possible to perhaps minor in something related to engineering and go that route?

Seriously dude, with all due respect, you SHOULD know the answers to those questions as a student, or as a responsible one at least. And if you don't, that's what your advisors are for. They know the answer to that better than anybody here, even if from the same school.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Mon May 24, 2010 9:10 pm

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 40):
you SHOULD know the answers to those questions as a student,

Some folks don't even know answers to those questions even after they graduated.   

bikerthai
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roseflyer
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Tue May 25, 2010 12:19 am

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 30):

As mentioned above, STRESS or Structure Analysis is always a commodity. When everyone is getting laid off, somehow, its the Structure Analyst gets retained. Personally I would go crazy being a stress weenie, but some folks like it. Take structure analysis courses including finite element modeling and analysis. This will look good on your transcript.

Stress is an area where there are tons of opportunities and the pay is good. However, it takes a lot of technical skills to be able to do the job and it is not the best for everyone.

Quoting c5load (Reply 36):

AFAIK, my degree is simply a Prof. Aeronautics degree. Is it possible to perhaps minor in something related to engineering and go that route?

A minor will not help you. As much as colleges want to promote them, they do not count towards education requirements

Quoting c5load (Reply 36):

I'm willing to to just about anything they want me to do as long as I can get my foot in the door. But I would rather not start out as a back office cashier for the parts dept, but be in a position where my military supervisory experience and education would come into use.

If you want to use your military supervisory experience, you might best be in the machinist area. After a couple years learning about manufacturing, you could move into one of those supervisory roles in the factory. That is an area where your background and experience could be used. Engineering is always a great career path, however it is very challenging. The schooling is intense and weeds a lot of people out. There is no easy way to get around the requirements of an ABET accredited engineering degree with a GPA above (and sometimes well above) 3.0 from a reputable school.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
eskimotail
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Tue May 25, 2010 1:22 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 24):
Defense right now is not hiring since they are going through layoffs, but commercial airplanes is hiring.


Just curious, Are you inside? Do you know of folks actually on the street that do not want to be? I see there have been some furloughs from both technical and professional "engineering" ranks, hard to tell how many got placed in other classifications. There are 317 current job postings for defense and 236 current job postings for BCA.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 42):
If you want to use your military supervisory experience, you might best be in the machinist area. After a couple years learning about manufacturing, you could move into one of those supervisory roles in the factory. That is an area where your background and experience could be used.
Quoting c5load (Thread starter):
I don't want to start somewhere where average joe with a high school diploma works.



Load is apparently not willing to start out where the mere high school graduate mortals work, and really expects his BS degree, (in what again?) to give him a leg up. It can open the doors for sure, but the rest is up to attitude. I would much prefer to hire a troop that is using the "or equivalent experience" to start learning the ropes, than one expecting a college degree to prove his pedigree.

So thanks are in order for military service, and congratulations for getting a college degree, But I would suggest work on expectations and conclusions about who he can learn from.
 
c5load
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Tue May 25, 2010 2:36 am

Quoting Eskimotail (Reply 43):
Load is apparently not willing to start out where the mere high school graduate mortals work, and really expects his BS degree, (in what again?) to give him a leg up.

What's wrong with that? Take a general manager at Lowe's for example. Why would he want to accept a job someplace where his education and experience would not be required at all? A job that a 16 yr old can do, like flipping burgers at McDonald's. Call me stuck up if you want, but after what will be 8 yrs of my military life is up, if I am going to voluntarily get out in search for something better, I really would not like to take a step backwards if possible. But if everyone on here is telling me that I am going to have to take a step back in order to go forward, then so be it.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 40):
Seriously dude, with all due respect, you SHOULD know the answers to those questions as a student, or as a responsible one at least.

Call me Jared, I see we are getting on a personal level which is what I want in order to find as much help as I can, but what answers to what questions? He eluded to the question that a lot of people on here didn't know what a Prof. Aeronautics degree was. Like I said, I have a course list and it doesn't list any kind of engineering classes. I does list a lot of math classes and management classes though. I am a responsible student, and I don't like the insinuation that I am not, I am just trying to see what my options are for the degree I am getting. If people on here say I shot myself in the foot for getting a "pilot's degree" than there is nothing I can do about that now. I thought that this degree would be able to yield more opportunities than just being a pilot. What about a corporate job at any one of a number of airlines? But please don't call me irresponsible, because I have really been trying to figure out exactly what I want after I get out.
"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
 
BMI727
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Tue May 25, 2010 2:42 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 31):

I agree about engineering almost certainly being a 4 year deal. Even going to community college may or may not be helpful.

Quoting Eskimotail (Reply 43):

I heard today that BDS is hiring, but not at the same rate as BCA.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 42):

Boeing does have pretty lofty standards, but general concensus seema to be that if you graduate with an engineering degree, you will get a job somewhere.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
413X3
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Tue May 25, 2010 5:22 am

if you are getting a degree in something aviation related but it isn't engineering or mechanical, you better be going to a community college. Unbelievable the amount of money kids throw away these days... This poster wants a job with Boeing right out of school with some general easy degree? What will he do at Boeing? Mop the floors? Repair computers? Amazing...
 
tdscanuck
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Tue May 25, 2010 5:26 am

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 30):
When everyone is getting laid off, somehow, its the Structure Analyst gets retained.

It's because you can't do anything in the aviation world, especially repairs, without stress analysis. And even when orders dry up and production lines slow down, Boeing has a fleet of over 10,000 aircraft out there in the world to support. And, as airplanes age, demand for stress analysis goes up. It's like being in the funeral business...the work isn't necessarily glamorous, but you never have to worry about lack of demand.

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 30):
I think Boeing even pay some interns!

I think they pay all of them.

Quoting c5load (Reply 36):
AFAIK, my degree is simply a Prof. Aeronautics degree. Is it possible to perhaps minor in something related to engineering and go that route?

It really depends what you want to do. A minor doesn't count as an engineering degree, which knocks a pretty large swath of potential jobs out of consideration. However, there's still a ton that are in consideration, and Boeing's education plan is really good so you can always get your engineering degree part-time after you start, if you decide that's the path you want to go down.

Quoting c5load (Reply 44):
I am a responsible student, and I don't like the insinuation that I am not, I am just trying to see what my options are for the degree I am getting.

I think people may be reacting to your lack of detail about whether it's a BSE, BE, BS, BA, some kind of associates degree, etc. (at least I didn't find that detail in this thread... apologies if I missed it). This is a huge factor in which job roles you're even eligible for at Boeing.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 45):
Boeing does have pretty lofty standards, but general concensus seema to be that if you graduate with an engineering degree, you will get a job somewhere.

I second that, with the caveat that certain types of degree/GPA/school may require a bit more "punching your ticket" on the job before you can find something you really like than others.

Tom.
 
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jetmech
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Tue May 25, 2010 7:16 am

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 47):
engineering degree

Since we're on the subject, does Boeing recognise mechanical engineering degrees conferred outside the US?

Regards, JetMech
JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair :shock: .
 
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bikerthai
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RE: I Want A Job At Boeing

Tue May 25, 2010 2:00 pm

Quoting jetmech (Reply 48):
Since we're on the subject, does Boeing recognise mechanical engineering degrees conferred outside the US?



I would bet Boeing recognizes tdscnuck's degree (I assume it is an Engineering degree).   

In your case, Boeing do have Australian Engineering Staff in Australia. Many came to the US to work design details for the Wedgetail project. There will probably a few more working on the P-8 for Australia in the future.

In general, you will have to call Boeing HR to see which non US Engineering School is accredited at Boeing.

Quoting c5load (Reply 44):
I does list a lot of math classes and management classes though.



These math and science courses will probably be able you to qualify for a Tech/Designer position. There are many other white collar job at Boeing that does not involve Engineering/Technical design . . . Project Manager, Buyers, Customer Relations etc , , ,

Don't dismiss job as a machinist off hand. With overtime etc . . . some machinist makes more than Engineers.

Maintain your DOD security clearance if you have one. A secret clearance is an added bonus when applying to Boeing Defense.

Things should look good for you in two years. Boeing will be in full swing with 787 and P-8 production. With the 737 replacement on the horizon, there will be plenty of opportunity here. And if Boeing gets the Tanker Contract, they may be hiring "off the street again". No I don't work for Boeing PR . . . 

Ofcourse, all this can go "poof" if the world gets into another economic crisis.   

bikerthai
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