c5load
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Weights On This Tanker DC-10

Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:30 am

Noticing the photo of this DC-10 tanker, I saw that the center bogie has been removed to provide for the tanks. DC-10s needed that bogie for support, so did they strengthen the main gear? Does it ever takeoff at MTOW, b/c if it doesn't would be a need for that center bogie to begine with?


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zanl188
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RE: Weights On This Tanker DC-10

Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:45 am

I'd suggest that the tanks are removable and that the center gear has been retracted & disabled vs removed.
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474218
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RE: Weights On This Tanker DC-10

Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:45 am

There is no need for the center line gear as the takeoff weights are much lower than a standard DC-10-30.

Remember, the interior has been removed, its carrying no cargo and it would have a very light fuel load.
 
c5load
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RE: Weights On This Tanker DC-10

Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:13 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 2):
Remember, the interior has been removed, its carrying no cargo and it would have a very light fuel load.

Will it ever carry cargo? I only ask b/c it's seems like kind of a waste of a large airplane just for the water tanks. Or, as ZANL188 said, can the tanks be removed and operate as a normal cargo plane?
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kl671
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RE: Weights On This Tanker DC-10

Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:17 am

Quoting c5load (Thread starter):
DC-10s needed that bogie for support

The tanker that you referenced is a modified DC10 -!0 and as delivered did not have the centre bogie. Only the -30 and -40 series DC10s were equipped with the extra gear.

http://www.air-and-space.com/DC-10%20Tanker%20Air%20Carrier.htm

Quoting c5load (Thread starter):
Does it ever takeoff at MTOW

Probably every time. Fire tankers are based as close to the fire as they can reasonably get. Thus they are fuellled with the minimum load required to complete the mission. The water/fire retardant tanks are then filled till the aircraft MTOW is reached.
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dtw9
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RE: Weights On This Tanker DC-10

Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:57 am

Quoting kl671 (Reply 4):
The tanker that you referenced is a modified DC10 -!0 and as delivered did not have the centre bogie.

910 is a series 10. The above photo shows 911, which is a series 30
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: Weights On This Tanker DC-10

Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:00 am

Quoting c5load (Reply 3):

Will it ever carry cargo? I only ask b/c it's seems like kind of a waste of a large airplane just for the water tanks. Or, as ZANL188 said, can the tanks be removed and operate as a normal cargo plane?

Its not a cargo configured aircraft and does not have a main deck cargo door. The aircraft's payload capability is simply being used to carry an external load via retardant tanks rather than internally which is enhanced with the interior removed and any other non-essential items. This is a permanent conversion and the center gear has most-likely been removed to save weight, not just locked up. The aircraft have been modified by STC ST01870LA.

Quoting kl671 (Reply 4):
The tanker that you referenced is a modified DC10 -!0 and as delivered did not have the centre bogie. Only the -30 and -40 series DC10s were equipped with the extra gear.

http://www.air-and-space.com/DC-10%2...r.htm

You are talking about the original aircraft Tanker 910 which is a DC-10-10. Tanker 911 is a -30 with the center gear removed. The -30 is capable of being operated without the center gear, but at reduced weights. However, even with the center gear removed, the -30 has greater payload capability than the -10.

Quoting kl671 (Reply 4):
Probably every time. Fire tankers are based as close to the fire as they can reasonably get. Thus they are fuellled with the minimum load required to complete the mission. The water/fire retardant tanks are then filled till the aircraft MTOW is reached.
Swapping range for load.

In the case of Tanker 911, the MTOW of a standard DC-10-30 is never reached as the center gear is removed, but the reduced MTOW may be. This aircraft S/N 57957 is eligible for a 572K MTOW, but according to page 10 of the TCDS A22WE http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...0a862575d1006f7449/$FILE/A22WE.pdf the MTOW is reduced to 475K with the center gear retracted.

[Edited 2010-06-08 20:06:46]

[Edited 2010-06-08 20:20:00]
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Fly2HMO
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RE: Weights On This Tanker DC-10

Wed Jun 09, 2010 4:15 am

Quoting c5load (Reply 3):

Will it ever carry cargo?

Don't think so, unless its stuff related to the fire mission, because with this barren interior I don't see any provisions for carrying pallets and such.


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Viscount724
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RE: Weights On This Tanker DC-10

Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:16 pm

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 5):
Quoting kl671 (Reply 4):
The tanker that you referenced is a modified DC10 -!0 and as delivered did not have the centre bogie.

910 is a series 10. The above photo shows 911, which is a series 30

The DC-10-30 in the photo was originally delivered to Finnair in 1975. After about 20 years with Finnair, it then spent a couple of years with defunct French carrier Air Liberte, then about 5 years with Continental, followed by another 5 years or so with Omni.


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ex52tech
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RE: Weights On This Tanker DC-10

Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:46 pm

Quoting kl671 (Reply 4):
Probably every time. Fire tankers are based as close to the fire as they can reasonably get. Thus they are fuellled with the minimum load required to complete the mission. The water/fire retardant tanks are then filled till the aircraft MTOW is reached.
Swapping range for load.

I can't imagine that they takeoff even close to MTOW due to the proximity to the fire and you would not want to fly that airplane low and slow that heavy.
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kl671
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RE: Weights On This Tanker DC-10

Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:58 am

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 5):
910 is a series 10. The above photo shows 911, which is a series 30
Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 6):
You are talking about the original aircraft Tanker 910 which is a DC-10-10. Tanker 911 is a -30 with the center gear removed.

oops. I don't know how I managed to confuse the two aircraft. It is certainly not because the tail numbers are difficult to read.

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