c5load
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What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:47 pm

The 787 has ~3 airframes in testing right now? Aircraft go through pretty rigorous testing while in that phase, so what happens to them after it is all complete? Is it kinda like a car dealership whereas the demonstration models get discounted for sale, but are still sold new? Or does Boeing hang on to them for any further testing, or for parts for future airplanes?
"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
 
rwessel
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:22 pm

Actually the fifth 787 flew yesterday. The sixth (and final) test airframe should fly by the end of July.

It varies, but usually they are sold, although sometime one is kept by the manufacturer for further development and testing. Usually there's a fair bit of work that needs to be done before the test airframes are ready for customers, so they tend to be delivered ~6 months *after* the first customer deliveries.

The initial six 787s (the ones in the test program), have ended up somewhat overweight, and Boeing's original plan to deliver them to customers has been changed, with the customers who were assigned those frame numbers getting later production builds instead.

AFAIK, Boeing is still planning on selling those, but since they'll be heavy, and have had rather more rework and deviations from the "real" production baselines, they'll likely be sold at a fair discount to the nominal 787 prices, and with some performance restrictions (basically weight and range). Someone needing a short range version for cheap is a likely candidate, and so would be some BBJ customers.
 
BoeEngr
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:58 am

For the 787-8, there are 6 test airplanes. At the conclusion of the flight test program, numbers 1-3 will remain with Boeing and be used as test beds for future improvements and testing. Numbers 4-6 will go under an extensive refurbishment program (in San Antonio), where the test equipment will be removed and sent back to Boeing Flight Test for use on future programs. The planes will be put into a deliverable condition, be updated to the most current configuration, and sold at a substantial discount. The feeling is they'll go as VIP airplanes rather than to airlines, but we'll see.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:57 am

Quoting c5load (Thread starter):
Is it kinda like a car dealership whereas the demonstration models get discounted for sale, but are still sold new? Or does Boeing hang on to them for any further testing, or for parts for future airplanes?

It depends. The first 737 & 747 are at the Museum of Flight in Seattle, the rest were sold. The first 757 still lives at Boeing field as a test-bed for Boeing defence, the rest were sold. I think NASA has the first 767, the rest were sold. All the 777's were sold.

Quoting rwessel (Reply 1):
AFAIK, Boeing is still planning on selling those

The first 3 stay with Boeing...they switched them from inventory (i.e. saleable) to R&D in their accounting statements last year. In theory, they could reverse that, but there'd be no reason to have done it in the first place if they ever intended to sell those three.

Tom.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:56 pm

Mostly the Manufacturer if they have no further need for testing would offer the Aircraft for sale after its completed in terms of Manufacture upto Customer configured status & at a lower cost  
regds
MEL.
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citationjet
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:03 am

At Cessna there are usually 3 test aircraft for new Citation certification projects. The prototype is never sold, and is retained in engineering for post TC cert efforts. Some are stretched for future models, used for engine test bed development, or new system developments and upgrades - they are kept on an experimental ticket. The other two test aircraft are reconditioned and sold to customers. They are refurbished (new interior and paint), and the customer gets a good price.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
2H4
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:09 pm

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 5):
engine test bed development, or new system developments and upgrades - they are kept on an experimental ticket.

I'm still trying to find a photo (or three) of this one:

http://i49.tinypic.com/detxk8.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/i71m9t.jpg


Apparently, it only ever flew at night, and no actual photographs seem to exist on the web.
Intentionally Left Blank
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:13 pm

Ser. no. 4 Concorde is on display at the IWM Duxford complete with emerg escape chute and test equipment.
 
zanl188
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:26 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):
It depends. The first 737 & 747 are at the Museum of Flight in Seattle, the rest were sold. The first 757 still lives at Boeing field as a test-bed for Boeing defence, the rest were sold. I think NASA has the first 767, the rest were sold. All the 777's were sold.

The straight scoop:

# 1 707 is at the Smithsonian
# 1 717 ???
# 1 727 is at the Museum of Flight
# 1 737 " " " " " "
# 1 747 " " " " " "
# 1 757 owned by Boeing
# 1 767 owned by Boeing
# 1 777 owned by Cathay Pacific
# 1 787 owned by Boeing
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boeing767mech
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:40 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 8):
# 1 767 owned by Boeing

Beer cans was scrapped in VCV in 2009

David
Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
 
zanl188
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:49 pm

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 9):
Beer cans was scrapped in VCV in 2009

  

No recent photos
No longer registered with FAA

To bad Boeing didn't see fit to bring her home....
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Viscount724
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:15 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):
The first 737 & 747 are at the Museum of Flight in Seattle, the rest were sold. The first 757 still lives at Boeing field as a test-bed for Boeing defence, the rest were sold.

The first 727 built and the one that made the first flight was delivered to UA about 18 months later. It was registered N7001U. The second 727 used in the test program was retained by Boeing and was used for various testing and development activities. I think much of it still exists although it was dismantled. The 2nd 727 is sometimes confused with the 1st due to the N72700 registration. Both aircraft in 1963 photo below behind the Dash 80. N72700 at the back.

http://rbogash.com/dash80_e1.JPG

Partly-dismantled 2nd 727 being used for paint durability testing at BFI in 1982.

 
KELPkid
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:37 pm

Many times, certification test articles have critical structural and/or equipment differences from production models...sometimes, this even precludes being able to certify the test article.

As an example:

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 5):
At Cessna there are usually 3 test aircraft for new Citation certification projects. The prototype is never sold, and is retained in engineering for post TC cert efforts. Some are stretched for future models, used for engine test bed development, or new system developments and upgrades - they are kept on an experimental ticket.
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 8):
# 1 707 is at the Smithsonian

Are you referring to dash 80? Dash 80 was technically neither the 707 nor the 717 (original-KC-135) prototype, as it is quite different from both   I've often wondered what became of the actual first 707 off of the line...
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
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Stitch
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:56 pm

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 10):
To bad Boeing didn't see fit to bring (the first 767) home....

N767BA was converted into an Airborne Surveilance Testbed for the US Army, so she really would not be suitable as an exhibit of a passenger 767.


View Large View Medium
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Photo © JayDeeKay

 
Viscount724
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:22 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12):
Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 8):
# 1 707 is at the Smithsonian

Are you referring to dash 80? Dash 80 was technically neither the 707 nor the 717 (original-KC-135) prototype, as it is quite different from both I've often wondered what became of the actual first 707 off of the line...

The first one off the line, and the one that made the 707's first flight December 20, 1957, was N708PA for Pan Am. It was the 6th 707 delivered on November 30, 1958. It was written off September 17, 1965 when it struck a mountain on the island of Montserrat in bad weather during a short (159 nm) flight from Martinique (FDF) to Antigua (ANU). All 30 aboard (9 crew and only 21 passengers) were killed. It was scheduled to continue from ANU to SJU and JFK.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19650917-0

Photo of that aircraft taking off on the first flight in the following Boeing article. By the time it crashed it had been converted to a 707-121B with JT3D turbofans.
http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers...rchive/2007/december/i_history.pdf
 
Tod
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:17 pm

The first two 767-300ER were sold.
One went to Gulf Air.
The other went to Lauda and it is the one that crashed in Tailand.

MJET will be selling the last of their MRJ test planes to ANA.
 
boeing767mech
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:51 pm

Quoting Tod (Reply 15):
The first two 767-300ER were sold.
One went to Gulf Air.
The other went to Lauda and it is the one that crashed in Tailand.

Interesting because what I have read N351AA 767-323ER is the first true Boeing built 767-300ER. And since American Airlines was the launch customer for the -300ER. The first 767-300 NON-ER was scrapped in VCV a couple of months ago.

David
Never under-estimate the predictably of stupidty
 
Tod
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RE: What Happens To Test A/C After Testing?

Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:13 pm

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 16):
Interesting because what I have read N351AA 767-323ER is the first true Boeing built 767-300ER. And since American Airlines was the launch customer for the -300ER.

N351AA was delivered first, but these two were the prototype airframes and it took the 767 Special Interiors Task Force (part of Payloads Engineering in Everett) quite a while to accomplish the change into customer configuration.

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