Longhornmaniac
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Regulations Re: Matching Bags And Pax Manifests?

Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:17 am

Hello all,

Sorry if the thread title is a little misleading, I wasn't exactly sure what to put. Anyway, I was out at Founder's Plaza at DFW today, watching the various comings and goings (AA Maddog, AA Maddog, AA Maddog, AE ERJ, AA Maddog, AA Maddog etc...). An Air Canada Jazz CRJ-900 took off on 18L, and then less than 5 minutes later, called Regional Approach, saying that it needed to return to the airport to offload a bag for a passenger that didn't board. They said it was somehow missed before they left the gate. Incidentally, it had to hold for about 45 minutes burning fuel before it could land. All of this seems like a dramatic inconvenience for a single bag.

Having worked as a ramper, I've had to do this before, as well, but I was wondering a little bit more about the origin of the policy/regulation. The pilot described it as "company regulation," but what exactly dictates this happening? I'm presuming the fact that it was an international flight had something to do with it (as I seem to recall only bags tagged to an international destination were required to be held off until the passenger boarded...but I could be mistaken).

Is this more than company policy? Is there some federal regulation regarding it? If so, what are the origins of such a regulation?

Thanks!

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
BMI727
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RE: Regulations Re: Matching Bags And Pax Manifests?

Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:36 am

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Thread starter):
Is this more than company policy? Is there some federal regulation regarding it?

I don't know, but it seems pretty standard across the industry.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Thread starter):
If so, what are the origins of such a regulation?

It is so someone can't plant a bomb in their luggage to take down the plane. Of course if the bomber is on board, it doesn't do much (let alone the cargo). It's a good policy, but it isn't foolproof. I believe this procedure came into use after the Lockerbie bombing.
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phljjs
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RE: Regulations Re: Matching Bags And Pax Manifests?

Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:43 am

I believe the rule is that if the flight is international and the passenger doesn't board, the bags get off-loaded. If the flight is a domestic U.S. flight, then the bag may fly even if the passenger doesn't. It becomes more of a customer service issue for the airline to find, off-load and return the bag to the customer at that point, although, it could also be a company policy. The thought is that since the bag has been screened, it likely doesn't present a threat and is eligible for trandsport. The International flight issue is probobly a Customs issue or that some countries are hyper- sensitive to security issues.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Regulations Re: Matching Bags And Pax Manifests?

Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:50 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
I believe this procedure came into use after the Lockerbie bombing.

I think it was way before that. I have memories from way back in the 70s of everyone having to get off the plane at Frankfurt Airport to identify their bags before we were allowed to depart. However Lockerbie definitely had an impact.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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golfradio
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RE: Regulations Re: Matching Bags And Pax Manifests?

Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:09 pm

I would imagine the policy started being enforced after the AI-182 bombing in 1985. The perps had checked in baggage with CP in YVR on CP flights to YYZ and NRT. The flights connected with AI-182 in YYZ and AI-301 at NRT. The baggage was through checked-in without the perps showing up.
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FredT
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RE: Regulations Re: Matching Bags And Pax Manifests?

Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:10 pm

In my neck of the woods, it is in the security regulations (which, I believe, are a rather straight translation of EU-dictated regs) that bags don't fly sans their associated pax.

Been that way since my ramping days ten years ago, at least. Pax not showing at gate, bags come out until the offending bag is found and offloaded. Good way to miss a slot, that...
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JER757
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RE: Regulations Re: Matching Bags And Pax Manifests?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:03 am

In the UK (I'm not sure about the US, but I'm sure its pretty similar) these rules are known as AAA ('Triple A') regulations: The Accounting and Authorisation of Hold Baggage for carriage by Air.

Basically they state that a bag must not travel without the passenger being on board. i.e. if a passenger who checked in a bag doesn't show up at the gate, the bag must come off. Those are the reason for those long ground delays whilst the loaders hunt through the hold of the plane. Every bag must be matched to a passenger either manually or using a computer system before the plane pushes back. If the aircraft departs and it is discovered that a bag is travelling unaccompanied, the aircraft must return to stand to have it offloaded. Returning whilst in the air seems quite extreme, I bet someone had to explain a few things for that!

The exception is where bags are classed as 'expedite' or 'rush' bags and are travelling unaccompanied. This happens when a bag misses a flight for whatever reason. The bags go through a higher level of security screening compared to standard bags. A security certificate for these bags is signed by the screener, and the bags are listed separately on Load Plans and Loadsheets.

It all came about from Pan Am 103, the Lockerbie bombing. I can't remember the exact story but basically a bag travelled (which contained the bomb) and the passenger didn't.

Although it is an extremely important rule in aviation - i.e. it is practically a sin to knowingly let a flight go a 'bag up' - with the potential for suicide bombers it is perhaps reasonable to assume that one day a bag will travel accompanied, and yet still contain an explosive device. The current security systems in place should prevent this, but in my opinion Triple A has become slightly less relevant with Bin Laden and his psychos at the helm...
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BMI727
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RE: Regulations Re: Matching Bags And Pax Manifests?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:33 am

Quoting JER757 (Reply 6):
It all came about from Pan Am 103, the Lockerbie bombing. I can't remember the exact story but basically a bag travelled (which contained the bomb) and the passenger didn't.

Pan Am 103 was a change of gauge flight going FRA-LHR-JFK. If I recall correctly the terrorist had the bag checked through to JFK, but did not get on the LHR-JFK segment.
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jetplaner
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RE: Regulations Re: Matching Bags And Pax Manifests?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:34 am

Quoting golfradio (Reply 4):
I would imagine the policy started being enforced after the AI-182 bombing in 1985

  

The Air India bombing occurred in 1985, the Lockerbie bombing was in 1988. As I understand it, the terrorists planted a bomb in a suitcase, then sent it unaccompanied YVR - YYZ on CP Air, from which it transferred to an Air India flight from YYZ - YMX - LHR. The suitcase exploded over the Atlantic, killing all on board. This was a joint terrorist attack, the other one involving an unaccompanied suitcase bomb travelling YVR - NRT on CP Air, which was supposed to transfer to another Air India flight. Fortunately, that bag exploded on the tarmac at Narita instead of in the air.

This most likely started the matching bags and pax procedures, IMO. If anyone can elaborate, please do.

Link to Air India 181/182 accident report:
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19850623-2

-Jetplaner
 
XXXX10
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RE: Regulations Re: Matching Bags And Pax Manifests?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:53 pm

Seem to remember the requirement for baggage reconciliation pre-dates PA 103 not sure about the AI bombing.

I remember that investigation into PA103 tried to establish why this breach of regulations occurred. I think that security at FRA were critizised for this.
 
swiftski
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RE: Regulations Re: Matching Bags And Pax Manifests?

Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:46 am

Quoting PHLJJS (Reply 2):
I believe the rule is that if the flight is international and the passenger doesn't board, the bags get off-loaded.
Quoting JER757 (Reply 6):
Basically they state that a bag must not travel without the passenger being on board. i.e. if a passenger who checked in a bag doesn't show up at the gate, the bag must come off.

Good rule in theory, although last time I travelled non rev (LHR-JFK-LAX-SYD) my bag flew the JFK-LAX leg the day before me as I got offloaded, and the same for the LAX-SYD flight. Possibly less strict for staff, but I'm sure there are some twisted staff members out there too.

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