lhcvg
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What Differentiates AA MD82/3s From DL MD88s?

Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:04 pm

I just saw the cockpit photo of an AA MD83 on the front page that looks much like an MD88 flight deck, and after reading on the Wikipedia MD80 page, it sounds like MD basically offered all the MD88 features across their line eventually. So why did they keep offering two products that seem pretty much identical?
 
KingFriday013
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RE: What Differentiates AA MD82/3s From DL MD88s?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:02 am

The MD-83 is longer than both the MD-82 and MD-88. The MD-88 is essentially a MD-82 with an upgraded cockpit and I think possibly stronger engines. Also, the MD-88 was the first aircraft to carry any official MD-xx designation. Up to the MD-87, it was technically a DC-9-xx (i.e. DC-9-87).

-J.

EDIT: For ALL future posters in this thread:

Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):
and after reading on the Wikipedia MD80 page

Note how I didn't flame the original poster about this. While we know that Wikipedia isn't always the most trustworthy source of information, it is a good place to find other trustworthy sources and it provides a decent background on the topic. It would be appreciated if everyone could restrain themselves from saying anything further on this. J

[Edited 2010-07-05 19:04:23]
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Starlionblue
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RE: What Differentiates AA MD82/3s From DL MD88s?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:23 am

The MD-88 is more or less an MD-83 with the EFIS flight deck from the MD-90. It also has interior improvements. The engines are the same as on the MD-83, that is more powerful than on the 81 and 82. The MTOW is, I think, the same as on the 83.

As you noticed, some flight decks on the earlier MD-8x marks were also EFIS in response to customer demand. The line becomes somewhat blurred.


Also as kingfriday013 says it is the first aircraft to officially be MD-88 instead of DC-9-8x.

Quoting kingfriday013 (Reply 1):
The MD-83 is longer than both the MD-82 and MD-88

Nope, they're all the exact same length. MD-81, 82, 83 and 88 are externally identical apart from the tailcone, where some have the old style cone look and some have the new style screwdriver look. The differences lie in engines and MTOW, with higher marks having better performance and higher weights. Some 81 models have also been retrofitted to become, essentially 83s.

Quoting LHCVG (Thread starter):
So why did they keep offering two products that seem pretty much identical?

Now there's a good question.

Quoting kingfriday013 (Reply 1):

Note how I didn't flame the original poster about this.


Good for you. Here's a cookie.

Quoting kingfriday013 (Reply 1):
It would be appreciated if everyone could restrain themselves from saying anything further on this. J

I'll try to restrain myself... Seriously, please dismount the tall equine.

[Edited 2010-07-05 19:24:44]
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boeing767mech
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RE: What Differentiates AA MD82/3s From DL MD88s?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:35 am

Quoting kingfriday013 (Reply 1):
MD-82 with an upgraded cockpit and I think possibly stronger engines.

AAll of our MD-82's and MD-83's Have JT8D-219 rated engines on the pylons.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
The MD-88 is more or less an MD-83 with the EFIS flight deck from the MD-90

The later MD-83's we got from TWA have EFIS, and IRU's with making working and swapping airplanes interesting. And that is not ncluding all the other differences like ingitor boxs. APU's Overhead Annunciator panels.

David
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KingFriday013
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RE: What Differentiates AA MD82/3s From DL MD88s?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:42 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
Nope, they're all the exact same length. MD-81, 82, 83 and 88 are externally identical

Wow I had no idea, guess you learn somethin new every day.

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 3):
AAll of our MD-82's and MD-83's Have JT8D-219 rated engines on the pylons.

Were they always like that? I always thought the MD-88 was an upgrade in one way or another from the other -80s, otherwise they wouldn't have made it. Guess I thought wrong. Glad I know now, though.

-J.
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boeing767mech
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RE: What Differentiates AA MD82/3s From DL MD88s?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:51 am

Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 3):
The later MD-83's we got from TWA have EFIS, and IRU's with making working and swapping airplanes interesting. And that is not ncluding all the other differences like ingitor boxs. APU's Overhead Annunciator panels.

I need to correct my first statement. All of our MD-82/83's have EFIS. The MD-82's where updated with they Smith System EFIS to replace the ADI and HSI. The later TWA airplanes have Engine Display Panels like the MD-88's and MD-90's and 737-300. The AA airplanes have steam gauges for engine gauges.

David
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Starlionblue
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RE: What Differentiates AA MD82/3s From DL MD88s?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:14 am

Quoting kingfriday013 (Reply 4):
Quoting boeing767mech (Reply 3):
AAll of our MD-82's and MD-83's Have JT8D-219 rated engines on the pylons.

Were they always like that? I always thought the MD-88 was an upgrade in one way or another from the other -80s, otherwise they wouldn't have made it.

The -82 originally had only -217 engines. Later, it was also delivered with -219 and even 209 engines.

The -83 only ever had -219 engines.

The -81 originally had only -209 engines. Later it was also delivered with -217 and -219 engines.

Confused? I know I am!   One thing that is clear is that there was a lot of overlap between the versions. Other manufacturers might not have named them that differently.
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deltal1011man
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RE: What Differentiates AA MD82/3s From DL MD88s?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:21 am

The first 8x M80s DL got from MD were MD-82s. DL has converted them to 88s now.
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lhcvg
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RE: What Differentiates AA MD82/3s From DL MD88s?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:51 am

Thanks for all the good responses folks -- I'll admit this is rather minor in the scheme of things, but I've just always been intrigued by why they didn't just say "Ok folks, all the MDs from now on will just be MD88's (or 87s, 89s had there been one, etc.), since the MD88 has made the original S80 models redundant" and then perhaps allowed "legacy" configurations for carriers who wanted to homogenize their fleets even as they bought new planes.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: What Differentiates AA MD82/3s From DL MD88s?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:06 am

Well, the models did have different MTOW and consequently different strength structures, for example landing gear.

You also have to remember lead times. If an airline orders an MD-82 for delivery in six years, and three years later they can order the MD-88, they won't necessarily convert their orders. Fleet commonality requires them to have the MD-82, even if the MD-88 is more modern. On the other end, the manufacturer has ordered the parts for the MD-82, perhaps with years of lead time, not the parts for the MD-88.

BTW they can't all become 87s because that was the shrink.
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lhcvg
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RE: What Differentiates AA MD82/3s From DL MD88s?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:38 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 9):
BTW they can't all become 87s because that was the shrink.

Very true. I was just making the point that there are multiple MD planes available not just the one MD88 "long body".
 
B727LVR
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RE: What Differentiates AA MD82/3s From DL MD88s?

Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:58 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
MD-81, 82, 83 and 88 are externally identical apart from the tailcone, where some have the old style cone look and some have the new style screwdriver look.

IIRC, AA has replaced all the "cone" shaped ones with the "screwdriver" shaped ones a while back. I know in ROW we had to remove all the screwdriver shaped ones and send to Tulsa, they sent us the cone shaped ones in to replace what we removed. From what I understand, the screwdriver shaped ones offer better aerodynamics.
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TrijetsRMissed
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RE: What Differentiates AA MD82/3s From DL MD88s?

Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:15 am

In terms of MD-80 series development, the -88 had the final upgrades and R&D. Those enhancements, (screwdriver tail-cone, EFIS flightdeck, increased use of composite panels, -219s, & misc cabin improvements) became standard on all MD-80 series by 1991. Only at the airlines' request (usuallly flightdeck and engine for commonality) were the upgrades not included.

Take the final batch ofTW MD-83's. They were more or less "MD-88ERs".
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pfletch1228
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RE: What Differentiates AA MD82/3s From DL MD88s?

Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:41 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):

The -82 originally had only -217 engines. Later, it was also delivered with -219 and even 209 engines.

The -83 only ever had -219 engines.

The -81 originally had only -209 engines. Later it was also delivered with -217 and -219 engines.

And to confuse things even more - some MD83 operators have flipped the plates on the -219 and operate the MD83's with the -217C spec (if they dont require the -219 performance, it saves on engine maintenance). I have even seen a -217A on a MD83 with a -217C on the other side...
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