RightRudder
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Why No Psgr. Bay On Aircraft Like Space Shuttle?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:04 am

Just curious why there has never been (of my own knowledge) an aircraft that has a cargo bay like the Space Shuttle? Have all the passengers ready in the cylinder shaped compartment and the mechanical arm would load and unload the pod into the aircraft. I am not an engineer but wouldn't it make things seamless during boarding and deplaning.
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana".
 
BMI727
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RE: Why No Psgr. Bay On Aircraft Like Space Shuttle?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:09 am

Quoting rightrudder (Thread starter):
Have all the passengers ready in the cylinder shaped compartment and the mechanical arm would load and unload the pod into the aircraft.

First, there is a reason that passengers are referred to as self loading cargo. There is no reason to add the cost, weight, and complexity when people can simply walk down a jetway.

Even for cargo, such a system makes no sense. If you look at cargo loading equipment, it is quite large and heavy, making it the sort of thing you would rather leave on the ground. I think I saw some snippets about the military looking at a loader that could be carried onboard the aircraft, but such a contraption would only be useful is specific circumstances where such equipment is unavailable at the destination.
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Why No Psgr. Bay On Aircraft Like Space Shuttle?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:20 am

BMI has it running.

And what are we truly saving. Time? Not much. Mainline boarding time in the US is rought 30 minutes for anything from a Mad Dog to a 757. About 5 minutes is added for widebodies. I've seen DL push a 763 with all seats occupied in about 30 minutes.
What gets measured gets done.
 
EDICHC
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RE: Why No Psgr. Bay On Aircraft Like Space Shuttle?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:25 am

What would really save time at boarding is a device to extract passengers out of the duty free shops, coffee shops or bars and get them all to the gate on time.
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Decromin
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RE: Why No Psgr. Bay On Aircraft Like Space Shuttle?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:31 am

You still have all the normal boarding issues you have now, just that they take place whilst you are getting onto the passenger cylinder instead of the aircraft itself. Next, you are adding a whole new layer of complexity and possible problem areas with the docking/undocking of the compartment. It seems an awful lot of trouble to go to to save a little time from the boarding process.

That said, I kind of like the idea from a cargo point of view. Rather than a pod, some sort of self supporting interlocked version of the LD3 pallets might have some use. If you could build a block of LD3's together on the ground, prebalanced, then simply push the whole thing onto a plane with nose or tail access, then that may shorten turnaround for a cargo carrier, but I'm sure I'm missing something there, and somehow I doubt it would translate to passengers.
 
RightRudder
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RE: Why No Psgr. Bay On Aircraft Like Space Shuttle?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:39 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 2):
And what are we truly saving. Time?

Not just that but I would say security. Why not load them off campus in the parking lots and transport them in pre-screened and secure. By an engineering standpoint, can something like this fly?
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana".
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Why No Psgr. Bay On Aircraft Like Space Shuttle?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:44 am

Setting $$$ aside, sure, i think it's possibe. I mean, almost anything is in this day and age. You just have to find the right people to do it.

Take take the engineless taxi concept for example. That idea has been around for quite some time now. Problem was money and making it practical. I don't know where they are at now but last I heard, they were trying to figure out ways to reduce its weight.
What gets measured gets done.
 
JBirdAV8r
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RE: Why No Psgr. Bay On Aircraft Like Space Shuttle?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:58 am

Quoting rightrudder (Reply 5):
Why not load them off campus in the parking lots and transport them in pre-screened and secure. By an engineering standpoint, can something like this fly?

Now you're on to something I've wondered might be feasible.

Scratch the "people pod" idea. I think it would be a novel idea to offer a prescreen of passengers at some central location, say in a city center, and transport them in a "sterile" environment directly to the aircraft--or at least the secure area of the terminal. Even this way, there are probably just too many variables/added costs/etc to make it economically viable.
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Why No Psgr. Bay On Aircraft Like Space Shuttle?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:04 am

Kind of related, but will we ever see wide spread use of double jetways? Load from the front and back? I think it's ingenious, but the fact that it's hardly ever used probably means it's not as ingenious as I thought  
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RightRudder
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RE: Why No Psgr. Bay On Aircraft Like Space Shuttle?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:28 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 8):
Kind of related, but will we ever see wide spread use of double jetways? Load from the front and back? I think it's ingenious, but the fact that it's hardly ever used probably means it's not as ingenious as I thought

Probably because of the caterers and other logistics. Also, the safety issues with not only the wing but the tail. Doubling chances of a mechanical with an aft passenger loading bridge.
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana".
 
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hOMSaR
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RE: Why No Psgr. Bay On Aircraft Like Space Shuttle?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:30 am

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 7):
Scratch the "people pod" idea. I think it would be a novel idea to offer a prescreen of passengers at some central location, say in a city center, and transport them in a "sterile" environment directly to the aircraft--or at least the secure area of the terminal. Even this way, there are probably just too many variables/added costs/etc to make it economically viable.

What do you gain by doing that?

You still have security screening, but now, instead of being able to focus your security resources in one spot, you have to have security facilities all over the place, miles away from the airport, and a way to transport people in a secure manner over those many miles.
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sw733
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RE: Why No Psgr. Bay On Aircraft Like Space Shuttle?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:23 am

Quoting rightrudder (Reply 5):
By an engineering standpoint, can something like this fly?

Here is the engineer in me: Anything can fly...it's a matter of doing it safely, effectively and efficiently. Anything that adds more possible fault areas than necessary can impact all three of those areas negatively.
 
BMI727
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RE: Why No Psgr. Bay On Aircraft Like Space Shuttle?

Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:09 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 2):
And what are we truly saving. Time?

Not likely, since refueling an aircraft could take a half hour or so anyway.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?

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