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nitepilot79
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Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:42 pm

While looking at the photo of the 787's flight deck; I noticed that the PA (public address) phone seems a bit bulky for such modern times. I've noticed this same thing on a lot if not all new airliner builds. It is somewhat comical for me to see these 80's looking phones sitting on the aft portion of the center console near all those sleek, modern instruments. Any ideas why they keep bulky things around?
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:44 pm

Here's the picture you refer to?


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Francoflier
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:03 pm

Don't forget that these handsets (as well as most of the cockpit furnishing and instruments) need to endure many decades of harsh continuous use. From experience, these handset will be dropped, slammed, showered in coffee repeatedly over their lifetime.

They also need to be ergonomic and easy to quickly grab.
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qqflyboy
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:19 pm

While the backside may not have changed much, their capabilities have. No longer do you simply call the cockpit or cabin, or cockpit, forward, mid and aft cabins. You can now call specific doors and different crew rest areas/bunks. Now you dial a number to reach a specific part of the aircraft and the phone rings, or you get a busy signal, just like a normal phone. No longer is the line always live. Mutiple calls can be made simultaneously to different parts of the a/c by different users/recipients. The newer phones also allow for cabin specific P.A.s, as well as a/c wide. The interphones are far more advanced than they ever used to be. While this isn't 'new' technology, the phones, while they look the same, continue to get improved functionality that helps crew communication.
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mcdu
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:58 pm

One of the changes I don't I will care for based on this design is the lack of a radio tuning knob. Looking at the Radio Management Unit it appears to employ the use of a digital keypad to "dial" a frequency. Not a fan of single digit inputs, hope it has some type of scroll or knob for tuning. This involves some interesting human factors changes from all previous designs.
 
HiJazzey
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:19 pm

I like the Boeing 787 stickers stuck right in front of the pilots. Just in case they forget what they are flying 
 
spacecadet
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:46 pm

Quoting nitepilot79 (Thread starter):
I noticed that the PA (public address) phone seems a bit bulky for such modern times.

I don't really understand the "girth" of it either (a real phone like this is about 90% air, and I'm not sure what else would be stuffed into a cockpit phone), but I do understand the basic shape and length/width. For one thing, a cockpit phone has to be corded for reliability, so there's that. Second, it's not about fashion or making something pocket-sized - it's about putting the microphone in the ideal spot to speak into. I'm not sure what sort of mics these phones use but I would imagine they're a type that intentionally doesn't pick up background sounds very well - meaning they should work best if your mouth is very close. Small phones that we all carry around or even use in our houses these days use mics designed to pick up sound at more of a distance, which is why you can hear all sorts of crap on most cell phone calls. You don't want that on a cockpit phone.

There's a similar design consideration for the ear piece, which should encircle a pilot's ear so that he can more easily hear. Modern home phones don't provide any sort of "seal" and can't be easily positioned on the ear by feel. Another thing you don't want in the cockpit.

So I can understand cockpit phones being bigger than normal and a more traditional style. I don't know why they need to be so thick, but I can see why the overall design is what it is.
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LY4XELD
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:15 pm

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 5):
I like the Boeing 787 stickers stuck right in front of the pilots. Just in case they forget what they are flying

That's probably their call sign, not their type.
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falstaff
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:37 pm

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 5):
I like the Boeing 787 stickers stuck right in front of the pilots. Just in case they forget what they are flying

I have seen that on a lot of plane types. The L1011 has rudder pedals with L1011 on them.
Even this classic 707 has titles infront of the pilots


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It isn't just commercial types either I have seen that on a B-52 and a B-47
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airtechy
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:21 pm

I really don't like pushbuttons for data entry. A knob you can hold in turbulence....with a button your extended arm moves all over the place. Having said that, some things are so complicated they do require a keypad. I just think some things...like frequency select on the comms and navs...work better with stacked knobs.

Jim
 
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:40 pm

Quoting francoflier (Reply 2):
Don't forget that these handsets (as well as most of the cockpit furnishing and instruments) need to endure many decades of harsh continuous use. From experience, these handset will be dropped, slammed, showered in coffee repeatedly over their lifetime.

They also need to be ergonomic and easy to quickly grab.

  

BINGO. As a member of the Technical Supply Chain portion of this industry, I couldn't imagine how many handsets we would be going through if they were made smaller and more delicate. As is, we still swap out quite a few on a regular basis. A lot of things on planes take a lot of abuse from crew and customers, sometimes leaving it bulkier and able to withstand that abuse helps. The less you have going out for repair, the less spares you need in the system, both save $$.

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etherealsky
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:53 pm

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 3):

Wow, very cool - I never knew they could do all that  
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akiss20
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:24 pm

Perhaps a stupid question, but why isn't PA/interphone things pumped through the pilot's headset? There is a mic there already and it can be more "hands free." My only guess is that it could interfere with ATC, but only 1 pilot is making a PA call at any time, so there is always another one monitoring freq.
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Dalmd88
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:39 pm

Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 12):
Perhaps a stupid question, but why isn't PA/interphone things pumped through the pilot's headset? There is a mic there already and it can be more "hands free." My only guess is that it could interfere with ATC, but only 1 pilot is making a PA call at any time, so there is always another one monitoring freq.

The PA is through the headset/boom and hand mike. The phone is for calling flight attendent stations, but can also be used to make general PA. On older planes I think it is just for FA communications.
 
tdscanuck
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:09 pm

Quoting nitepilot79 (Thread starter):
While looking at the photo of the 787's flight deck; I noticed that the PA (public address) phone seems a bit bulky for such modern times.

A handset is a handset, pretty much...other than being heavier for durability, it's about the same size as my essentially-brand-new Cisco VOIP handset.

Quoting mcdu (Reply 4):
One of the changes I don't I will care for based on this design is the lack of a radio tuning knob. Looking at the Radio Management Unit it appears to employ the use of a digital keypad to "dial" a frequency. Not a fan of single digit inputs, hope it has some type of scroll or knob for tuning.

It doesn't, just digital buttons. I like it, because it goes with how ATC gives you the frequencies...just punch it in as you hear it.

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 5):
I like the Boeing 787 stickers stuck right in front of the pilots. Just in case they forget what they are flying

It's what LY4XELD said:

Quoting LY4XELD (Reply 7):
That's probably their call sign, not their type.

ZA003 normally operates as "Boeing 003", for the airshow only it changed to "Boeing 787". Especially for pilots shared across a lot of planes that all have identical flight decks, it could be easy to forget which call sign you're on today.

Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 12):
Perhaps a stupid question, but why isn't PA/interphone things pumped through the pilot's headset?

It is. But the headset can only do all PA or all interphone (the selections on the tuning control panels). If you want to do a specific zone, or a specific attendant station, or specific crew rest bunk, you need more resolution, which you get from the handset.

Tom.
 
SP90
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:56 pm

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 5):
I like the Boeing 787 stickers stuck right in front of the pilots. Just in case they forget what they are flying

Maybe its just the lighting in that photo but that looks suspiciously like a P-Touch label.  
 
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kanban
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:08 am

Quoting falstaff (Reply 8):
Even this classic 707 has titles infront of the pilots

707 & 727s had medallions indicating the model in the wheel & column hub... they were the biggest spares sellers because pilots kept prying them out for souvenirs....
 
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747classic
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:58 am

Quoting LY4XELD (Reply 7):
That's probably their call sign, not their type.



Stickers on the pilots panels are normally stating the registration and selcal code, because both are aircraft related and can changes frequently within one crew rotation. (Aircraft can fly 24/7 , you are not able to do so)
During R/T conversation sometimes your are asked for your registration and/or selcal code by ATC, for a speedy answer you only have to check your pilots panel.
The call sign in airline operation changes with every destination (or stretch) flown and is mentioned on your flight plan. (and inserted in your FMS.) With each new ATC contact you are stating your call sign, so you have to remember that for a few hours.
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tdscanuck
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:59 am

Quoting SP90 (Reply 15):
Maybe its just the lighting in that photo but that looks suspiciously like a P-Touch label.

That's because it is a P-Touch label.

Quoting 747classic (Reply 17):
Stickers on the pilots panels are normally stating the registration and selcal code, because both are aircraft related and can changes frequently within one crew rotation.

On a 787, registration and selcal code are in the information block just outboard of the PFD, so no need for a panel label.

Quoting 747classic (Reply 17):
The call sign in airline operation changes with every destination (or stretch) flown and is mentioned on your flight plan. (and inserted in your FMS.)

That's true for airlines, but not for flight test...flight test aircraft normally hold the same call sign for months at a time (but the pilots swap around all the time, so from their point of view it changes often).

Tom.
 
DashTrash
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:20 pm

Quoting DALMD88 (Reply 13):
On older planes I think it is just for FA communications.

The ones on the Dash 8-100s do both cabin PAs and FA comms. The -200, -300s and -100s didn't have phones and used the headsets.

Quoting kanban (Reply 16):
707 & 727s had medallions indicating the model in the wheel & column hub... they were the biggest spares sellers because pilots kept prying them out for souvenirs....

I know many people who have one or two laying around.....
 
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:54 am

Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 12):
Perhaps a stupid question, but why isn't PA/interphone things pumped through the pilot's headset?

As noted it is and it makes for some interesting calls on the ops frequency every once in a while.
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akiss20
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RE: Old-School Phones On The Flight Deck Still?

Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:28 am

Quoting dxing (Reply 20):
Quoting AKiss20 (Reply 12):
Perhaps a stupid question, but why isn't PA/interphone things pumped through the pilot's headset?

As noted it is and it makes for some interesting calls on the ops frequency every once in a while.

I recall a funny clip of a pilot making his PA speech on JFK GND and after he was done GND was like "come on guys, you can't let him get away with this" and a sudden barrage of "where are we going?" "what is the temperature?" "What airline am I on?" followed 
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