KELPkid
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Learjet 20 Series Windows

Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:48 am

Just wondering when Lear switched from the large passenger windows (which just about all 23 series feature):


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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andreas Mueller - Spotterteam Graz



By the way, very few Learjet 23 photos in the a.net database.

over to the smaller windows (which appear to start on the Learjet 24B):


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Photo © Trevor Warne



Were the smaller windows an option? How's the view with the big "picture windows?"  Does anyone know why the change?
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soon7x7
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RE: Learjet 20 Series Windows

Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:00 pm

Originally a military bird in the 50's, it wasn't till the 60's that the 23 flew in 1963 as a corporate jet. The 24 followed in 1966 and was the last to utilize the large windows. Later versions of the 24 brought into production the smaller window (1967). From what I have been told it was to allow a higher service ceiling. Truth be told...the plane is soooo small inside, how big does the window have to be when your puss is squished up to it?....The Gulfstream 650 is to have a new larger window than the current 18" x 24" oval. Thats a big window!
 
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tb727
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RE: Learjet 20 Series Windows

Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:56 pm

I can't quite remember but I think it was mentioned in ground school that they were changed to the airliner style windows to make it more stylish and make it seem like the plane was bigger than it was. I flew both big window and small window 24's, it didn't make a difference, they were equally cramped and uncomfortable. What a POS, I'm glad I'm done flying those things.

I will say that by the time the 24D and 25D's were out, they worked out most of the bugs and those were a little more enjoyable to be dispatched in, but still, not a fan of the Lear. Poorly designed and not thought out, not to mention Bill Lear would walk around the factory and change stuff in the middle of production.
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DashTrash
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RE: Learjet 20 Series Windows

Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:15 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Thread starter):
By the way, very few Learjet 23 photos in the a.net database.

May were converted to the 24. Many of the large window 24s are "straight 24's", or converted 23s. It gave the airplane a higher gross weight and introduced a motive flow fuel system over the electric pumps in the 23.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 1):
Originally a military bird in the 50's, it wasn't till the 60's that the 23 flew in 1963 as a corporate jet.

Kinda. The wing came from a Swiss attack aircraft, the FFA P-16. As far as I know Bill Lear designed the fuselage around that wing and landing gear. The rest of the airplane was purpose built.

Quoting tb727 (Reply 2):
What a POS, I'm glad I'm done flying those things.

I will say that by the time the 24D and 25D's were out, they worked out most of the bugs and those were a little more enjoyable to be dispatched in, but still, not a fan of the Lear. Poorly designed and not thought out, not to mention Bill Lear would walk around the factory and change stuff in the middle of production.

Couldn't have said it better. You can tell where they had finished designing the thing, then realized they forgot something and added it in weird places. Always enjoyed having one fuel gauge, one fuel flow gauge, and the trunk tank was a gigantic pain in the ass. Not to mention the megaphone shaped cabin that projected all the engine noise to the cockpit.

I'm glad I flew the thing though. That airplane turns men into pilots.
 
474218
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RE: Learjet 20 Series Windows

Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:31 pm

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 1):
Originally a military bird in the 50's, it wasn't till the 60's that the 23 flew in 1963 as a corporate jet.

What military operated the Lear 23 before the prototype flew in 1963?
 
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tb727
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RE: Learjet 20 Series Windows

Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:31 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 3):

I'm glad I flew the thing though. That airplane turns men into pilots.

That is true, you have to stay about 7 miles ahead of that plane. My hearing is significantly worse after 5 years in those things. Noisy inside and out not to mention the ear pieces we were forced to use.
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474218
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RE: Learjet 20 Series Windows

Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:03 pm

Suggest reading the following.

http://williamplear.com/learjet._2.html

Be sure to watch the video "see Learjet 23 in flight" see bottom of the page.
 
BMI727
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RE: Learjet 20 Series Windows

Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:01 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 3):
The wing came from a Swiss attack aircraft, the FFA P-16. As far as I know Bill Lear designed the fuselage around that wing and landing gear

I think it was just the wing planform. The wing structure in the Lear is significantly different.
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MD-90
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RE: Learjet 20 Series Windows

Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:41 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):

I think it was just the wing planform. The wing structure in the Lear is significantly different.

But still strong as hell with those 8 wing spars.
 
MD-90
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RE: Learjet 20 Series Windows

Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:45 am

Wow thanks for pointing that out 474218, that was a great video with the Delta DC-8 & Lear 23.
 
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tb727
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RE: Learjet 20 Series Windows

Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:56 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 8):

But still strong as hell with those 8 wing spars.

Which is somewhat of a farce. Only 2 go all the way through from tip to tip. The weakest part of that plane is the tail, which may have 5 spares, but it is held on by only 2 bolts the diameter of your thumb.
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