WROORD
Topic Author
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Do Airlines Pay For Being Late?

Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:44 am

Do airlines pay a fine to the airports for being late or extending the use of gates?
 
nomadd22
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RE: Do Airlines Pay For Being Late?

Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:29 am

It's usually weather or the airports fault that the plane is late.
Anon
 
thegeek
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RE: Do Airlines Pay For Being Late?

Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:38 am

Quoting WROORD (Thread starter):
Do airlines pay a fine to the airports for being late or extending the use of gates?

In Australia, most gates are permanently allocated to a given airline. I expect its the same with DL in ATL for example. So, it would only happen that they pay a fine if they are renting the gate on a per minute basis, which may happen in certain airports for certain airlines. They also could be forced to rent a gate from another airline and would pay for this.
 
alwaysontherun
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Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:15 pm

RE: Do Airlines Pay For Being Late?

Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:03 am

Quoting thegeek (Reply 2):
They also could be forced to rent a gate from another airline and would pay for this.

I once read on this site that airlines help each other out at times, under the motto "I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine". The example I'm thinking of was when an aircraft went tech away from its own hub and Airline A basically borrowed some hangar space from Airline B with the understanding that if the favor had to be returned in the future (gate space??) elsewhere, Airline B would.

Anybody has more examples of that?

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Maverick623
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RE: Do Airlines Pay For Being Late?

Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:13 am

Quoting WROORD (Thread starter):
Do airlines pay a fine to the airports for being late or extending the use of gates?

The answer I'm going to give is specific to US airports:

Not usually.

In most cities, airlines either own or lease a set amount of gates for their exclusive use. So "being late" is irrelevant.

If an airline uses common-use gates (CUTE, for short), they either pay an hourly rate or a flat rate, depending upon the local agreement.

For example, in PHX, US Airways leases 49 gates in Terminal 4 (for a total of 53 parking spaces) for their exclusive use. There are 6 additional CUTE gates in T4, that are used by BA, WS, AC, AM, and US, that are charged an hourly rate for use. However, an airline can get fined extra if they are blocking a gate needed by another scheduled inbound from another airline.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
bohica
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RE: Do Airlines Pay For Being Late?

Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:53 pm

An airline can be fined if they operate into/out of an airport during a curfew, if they are allowed to operate during a curfew. I know this happens at SJC. In many cases the airline will pay the fine for the late flight instead of waiting out a curfew or cancelling the flight.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Do Airlines Pay For Being Late?

Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:26 pm

Quoting alwaysontherun (Reply 3):

I once read on this site that airlines help each other out at times, under the motto "I'll scratch your back, you scratch mine". The example I'm thinking of was when an aircraft went tech away from its own hub and Airline A basically borrowed some hangar space from Airline B with the understanding that if the favor had to be returned in the future (gate space??) elsewhere, Airline B would.

Anybody has more examples of that?

It goes way beyond that. Airlines heavily cooperate. One huge area is maintenance and spares. Airlines borrow parts from each other everywhere in the world. If a UA 747 needs a spare part in HKG, they have an agreement with CX to provide the part on loan and pay for it with an identical part or buy it from them. Airlines also have maintenance contracts with each other. If VX has a birdstrike that takes an A320 out of service at JFK, they can go to B6 and pay the B6 mechanics to fix the plane. However urgent fixes at stations where another airline is the only maintenance provider is not ideal. If a WN 737 needs line maintenance repair in SEA, AS will do it, but after they finish their own work and of course will charge WN dearly for it.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
474218
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RE: Do Airlines Pay For Being Late?

Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:39 pm

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 1):
It's usually weather or the airports fault that the plane is late.


What was the question?

To answer the question: there are costs incurred by the airlines for being late with the biggest being lost revenue when passengers shun them because they become know for their late arrivals.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Do Airlines Pay For Being Late?

Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:21 pm

Also don't forget slot usage penalties.

Habitual off schedule operations, can ding airline and even result in loss of slots. For instance the IATA standard as applied by many national authorities requires +/-30 minute ontime operations 80% of the time.
I also know airport operators that apply fines on carriers for off schedule or delayed late night operations.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
WROORD
Topic Author
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RE: Do Airlines Pay For Being Late?

Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:05 am

That would explain why I do see some long haul flights habitually late. Even when they arrive on time the outbound is always late....
 
Maverick623
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RE: Do Airlines Pay For Being Late?

Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:13 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 6):
However urgent fixes at stations where another airline is the only maintenance provider is not ideal. If a WN 737 needs line maintenance repair in SEA, AS will do it, but after they finish their own work and of course will charge WN dearly for it.

When something like that happens, usually an airline will just fly up their own mechanics, and (depending on what kind of work is done) tools and parts.

I've gotten calls several times less than 15 minutes to departure, where we have to wait for must-ride mechanics. And usually they bring along a tool crib or two (that weigh about 250 pounds apiece).
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
bri2k1
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RE: Do Airlines Pay For Being Late?

Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:48 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 7):
What was the question?

To answer the question:

That wasn't the question either. The question was whether or not the airline pays fines to the airport. The answer, at least in most cases in the US, is "no." If the gate is rented by the hour, and the late arrival misses the gate, the airline may still have to pay for the original unused rental period. They may also have to pay a higher rental charge for another gate, but as has been pointed out, most airports are not configured this way.

The use of the word "fine" in the OP's question makes me wonder if he or she thinks there is a regulatory component. There isn't an explicit rule of which I'm aware that requires airlines to be on time. There is also an overriding component of the regulations that requires safety above all else, which would provide an easy out for things like delays incurred from a longer flight time to fly around dangerous weather. However, the FAA does collect and report on-time statistics (http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_information/), and uses these to pressure airlines into arriving on time so that the utility of the air travel system is improved for the flying public, as 474218 implied.
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Moose135
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RE: Do Airlines Pay For Being Late?

Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:44 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 6):
Airlines heavily cooperate. One huge area is maintenance and spares. Airlines borrow parts from each other everywhere in the world.

You don't need to venture beyond the DB to see that - there are several photos showing a mis-matched rudder or cowling. One memorable one:


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