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juanchito
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High Altitude Airport And Long Range Airplane

Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:10 am

Hi to all, I have some questions regarding Long Range trip outside of High Altitud Aiport. Airplanes are penalize because of the High Altitud Airports, my first question is:

According to each aircraft performance what are the runway requirements for altitude performance for a 5000 to 6000nm flight?

Airplane....................2500ft elevation..............5000ft elevation................7500ft elevation................10,000ft elevation
A-340-300
A-340-600
767-300
777-200
777-300ER
787-8 (estimated)
A359 (estimated)

Here I have some examples and both GUA and UIO are penalized and can't have nonstop flight to Europe

Airport.........Elevation..........Runway Lenght
MEX............7316ft..............12966ft
SJO.............3021ft..............9882ft
UIO..............9228ft..............10236ft
BOG............8361ft..............12467ft
GUA............4592ft..............9800ft

Thanks

Juanchito

[Edited 2010-10-09 18:55:04]
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sunrisevalley
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RE: High Altitude Airport And Long Range Airplane

Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:54 am

You also need to know the temperature at takeoff.
 
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juanchito
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RE: High Altitude Airport And Long Range Airplane

Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:13 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 1):
You also need to know the temperature at takeoff.

Good Point

I just google the average temperature for each city.

Airport.........Elevation..........Runway Lenght......Average Temp
MEX............7316ft..............12966ft..................16C=60.8F
SJO.............3021ft..............9882ft...................24C=75.2F
UIO..............9228ft..............10236ft.................23C=73.4F
BOG............8361ft..............12467ft.................14C=57.2F
GUA............4592ft..............9800ft...................20C=68 F

Most of transatlantic flight depart after 5 pm, when temp. is lower.

Juanchito
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boeing767er
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RE: High Altitude Airport And Long Range Airplane

Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:54 am

Juanchito,

In order to calculate the required runway length you need a lot of data:

* Aircraft type and fitted engines
* Take-off weight
* Altitude
* Temperature and wind
* Runway condition (wet/dry)

At Mean Sea Level (MSL), 15 degrees C, no wind and on a dry runway, at Maximum Take-off Weight (MTOW) the following types need:

Airbus A340-300 CFM56 5C4 275.0KGS 3050m
Airbus A340-600 RB211 Trent 556 390.0KGS 3500m
Boeing 767-300ER CF6-80C2B7F 188.0KGS 2550m
Boeing 777-200 297.6KGS 3400m
Boeing 777-300ER GE90-115BL 351.5KGS 3050m

2000ft above MSL -- Add 10% in runway length to the figures at MSL.
4000ft above MSL -- Add another 15% to 2000ft.
6000ft above MSL -- Add another 20% to 4000ft.
8000ft above MSL -- Add another 25% to 6000ft.
10000ft above MSL -- Add another 30% to 8000ft.

High temperatures (30 degrees celsius) -- I'd say add another 5 to 15% depending on aircraft type.

Wet runways -- I'd say add another 5 to 10%.

I hope this gives you a rough idea what altitude does with aircraft performance.

I made about 150 performances databases for about 4800 airports worldwide based on the offical airport planning documents published by Boeing, Airbus and Embraer. If anyone is interested, I can upload them. It gives you a pretty good view of which aircraft is suitable to land and take-off in ISA and ISA+15 conditions at any airport worldwide with a runway larger than 1250m/4100ft.

Luc
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: High Altitude Airport And Long Range Airplane

Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:18 pm

Quoting boeing767er (Reply 3):
I made about 150 performances databases for about 4800 airports worldwide based on the offical airport planning documents published by Boeing, Airbus and Embraer.

What do you show for a 77L out of JNB assuming the temperature is 28C ?
 
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juanchito
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RE: High Altitude Airport And Long Range Airplane

Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:34 pm

Thanks for your answer Boeing767er.

Quoting boeing767er (Reply 3):
I made about 150 performances databases for about 4800 airports worldwide based on the offical airport planning documents published by Boeing, Airbus and Embraer. If anyone is interested, I can upload them. It gives you a pretty good view of which aircraft is suitable to land and take-off in ISA and ISA+15 conditions at any airport worldwide with a runway larger than 1250m/4100ft.

Please share with us this.


Juanchito
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boeing767er
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RE: High Altitude Airport And Long Range Airplane

Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:43 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 4):
What do you show for a 77L out of JNB assuming the temperature is 28C ?

Longest runway at FAJS is 4418m at an elevation of 5558ft.

At sea level both the GE90-110B1L and the GE90-115BL would need about 2900m to 3100m in ISA+15 conditions. (No winds, 30 degrees C and QNH1013).

I actually checked the Boeing performance data and the 777-200LR is tire speed limited at 6000ft elevation. Due to the limitation, the 777-200LR GE90-115BL can take-off at FAJS at about 320.000kgs take-off weight, which means it is almost 28.000kgs under MTOW.

If you were aiming at max fuel, you would probably have to leave some pax and luggage behind  

And almost forgot to answer your original question; you would need about 4000m.

Luc

[Edited 2010-10-10 05:54:51]

[Edited 2010-10-10 05:55:06]
 
boeing767er
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RE: High Altitude Airport And Long Range Airplane

Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:37 pm

http://www.4shared.com/file/l0rBmdyT/performance_database.html

Legal mumbo jumbo: All databases are compiled by me, copyright 2010, do not redistribute without my permission, and not for real life use...  

All MSL data is taken from official documents but might be up to 200m off due to unclear graphs. The 2000+ data are guesstimates but come pretty close to the real figures. Sheets are in Excel 2007/2010 format.

Have fun!

Luc
 
sunrisevalley
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RE: High Altitude Airport And Long Range Airplane

Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:26 pm

Quoting boeing767er (Reply 6):
Due to the limitation, the 777-200LR GE90-115BL can take-off at FAJS at about 320.000kgs take-off weight, which means it is almost 28.000kgs under MTOW.

Thanks, you confirm what I thought it would be...but I was not sure I was reading it correctly !

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