cvg2lga
Topic Author
Posts: 427
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:48 am

777/767 Pax Doors

Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:37 am

Why did Boeing revert back to outward opening doors on the 777 instead of keeping doors that slide upwards like the 767s' doors do? Are all 777/767 frames designed with outward/upward opening doors?

Tchau

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BMI727
Posts: 11172
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: 777/767 Pax Doors

Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:43 am

Quoting cvg2lga (Thread starter):
Why did Boeing revert back to outward opening doors on the 777 instead of keeping doors that slide upwards like the 767s' doors do?

I don't know for sure, but one potential reason is that on the 767, not all of the doors had power opening/closing leaving a lot of manual labor to open or close the other doors (I think that the number of doors with power was up to the airline). I don't know how it works on the 777 exactly, but I'd wager that manually opening one of those doors is a good bit easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dijpw...B7F7280353C2CC&playnext=1&index=85
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JBirdAV8r
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RE: 777/767 Pax Doors

Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:59 am

Quoting cvg2lga (Thread starter):
Why did Boeing revert back to outward opening doors on the 777 instead of keeping doors that slide upwards like the 767s' doors do? Are all 777/767 frames designed with outward/upward opening doors?

The short answer is that outward-opening doors are a lot less maintenance intensive. Fewer moving parts and easier repairs if something does go wrong...plus you eliminate having to service an alternative or quick-release mechanism for the door.
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Markhkg
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RE: 777/767 Pax Doors

Tue Oct 19, 2010 7:13 am

Also, the B767 exit was somewhat notorious for inadvertent slide deployments by cabin crew. The arming lever was hard to visualize from a distance if the door was armed/disarmed amongst other difficulties noted.
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PGNCS
Posts: 2249
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RE: 777/767 Pax Doors

Tue Oct 19, 2010 11:27 pm

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 3):
Also, the B767 exit was somewhat notorious for inadvertent slide deployments by cabin crew. The arming lever was hard to visualize from a distance if the door was armed/disarmed amongst other difficulties noted.

That's true; it's not an intuitive design at all.

Ironically the L-1011 had a nearly bulletproof, simple, and effective system for door opening and closing in every mode, so the problem with the inadvertant deployments on the 767 are not due to any specific factor making undesired deployments intrinsically more likely with inward sliding doors, but with the horrible control configuration Boeing designed into that particular aircraft.
 
MattRB
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Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:49 am

RE: 777/767 Pax Doors

Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:25 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
I don't know how it works on the 777 exactly, but I'd wager that manually opening one of those doors is a good bit easier.

It is. The door is equipped with a pull out handle, located on the door, that you rotate to open the door and then manually pull the door open. It's much easier than the 767 (imo).
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BoeEngr
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:31 am

RE: 777/767 Pax Doors

Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:23 pm

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 2):

The short answer is that outward-opening doors are a lot less maintenance intensive.

Absolutely correct. I'd have to check, but it wouldn't surprise me if the 767 door and mechanism are heavier than the 777. Also, if I'm not mistaken, using a 767 style door on a 777 would cut into the overhead crew rest space.
 
Mender
Posts: 249
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 9:36 am

RE: 777/767 Pax Doors

Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:12 am

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 2):
The short answer is that outward-opening doors are a lot less maintenance intensive. Fewer moving parts and easier repairs if something does go wrong

I disagree. From my experience the 767 door require very little maintenance compared to the 757 or 737. You might occasionally have to change a bearing in the handle mechanism but I can't remember the last time we had to remove the actual door from a 767, unlike the 757's which have at least two doors overhauled per C check.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19287
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: 777/767 Pax Doors

Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:45 am

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 2):
The short answer is that outward-opening doors are a lot less maintenance intensive.

But they avoid expensive incidents like the following:
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local-bea...Fuselage-at-DFW-Gate-96490959.html
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_9929086
SQ 777 Has Door Ripped Off By Catering Truck (by Zkpilot Jan 18 2009 in Civil Aviation)

Many earlier types, both jet and prop, had inward-opening doors. Some slid upward and some slid sideways inside the fuselage. A few that come to mind: Caravelle, Trident, Britannia, L-188 Electra, Constellation. and several Russian types.
 
FlyingColours
Posts: 2202
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:13 am

RE: 777/767 Pax Doors

Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:04 am

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 3):
Also, the B767 exit was somewhat notorious for inadvertent slide deployments by cabin crew. The arming lever was hard to visualize from a distance if the door was armed/disarmed amongst other difficulties noted.

Yup

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 4):
but with the horrible control configuration Boeing designed into that particular aircraft.

Exactly, I'm not going to get out my Doors 101 guide again but the design of the door controls is beyond laughable, Yes it is good that they are all there together and easy to operate in an emergency (say the door was disarmed at the gate and something goes wrong, the other doors which are not at the gate can be instantly re-armed and opened saving precious seconds). However the flaw is that the handles can be confused, there are differences between them one being red and only moving a few inches either outboard or inboard and the other being a huge silver one... The thing is after an 11 hour flight concentration starts to wander and the wrong handle can be used (ironically it is usually more senior crew who do this because they have become complacent, rather than rookies who are petrified of doors just in case...)

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
I don't know for sure, but one potential reason is that on the 767, not all of the doors had power opening/closing leaving a lot of manual labor to open or close the other doors

It depends upon the airline as to what doors have power assisted opening, the forward left door would have it on the 762 and 763, depending upon the configuration of the 763 the second left door may have power assist too (as this would commonly be the boarding door). All of the other doors are a bit of a git to open manually but they are still better than 757 doors in my opinion, at least as far as opening and closing go.

Phil
FlyingColours
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19287
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: 777/767 Pax Doors

Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:54 pm

At least one business jet, the Lockheed Jetstar, also had an inward-opening door. It slid sideways inside the fuselage.


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