B737900
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Preflight Walk-arounds

Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:48 pm

To a passenger, preflights look somewhat haphazard and perfunctory. Looking at today's a.net Top Five photos suggests a question. The flight engineer doing a preflight of a Boeing 707-131B in 1971: What is he/she looking for? (somewhat obvious); who does them?; do they ever find something that will scrub a flight?; how often are preflights done? Could some of you crew/rampers out there enlighten the rest of us with some of your experiences? Like to hear from some crew/ramper that has actually found something of note. Thank you all kindly.

[Edited 2010-12-06 08:23:12]
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san747
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:06 pm

Both one of the pilots and the ramper that guides the aircraft into the gate and pushes it out do seperate walkarounds, within 10 minutes of arrival and prior to pushback.

Basically, as a ramper, you're looking for obvious signs of damage and anything in general that doesn't look right- maybe panels accidentally left open or something like that. Pilots do a more thorough inspection, though I don't know all the particulars of it, maybe someone could expand on that?
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skoker
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:13 pm

When I was a ramper, the marshaller was responsible to do a quick walk around the aircraft to check for damage- mainly so that the crew and Flight Control knew about any damage that occurred at the departing station or inflight so that the station wasn't charged with the damage. The crew does a more through check of the aircraft to check aircraft parts and controls and look for obvious signs of damage or "things that don't look right"
 
slz396
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:21 pm

the flight crew will look at all sort of things during their walk around, mainly technical issues like the condition of the tyres, the absence of hydraulic leaks from flaps or struts, for inoperative nav lights, or the condition of the static dischargers; things like that which are all not repeated on the flight deck and can only be verified to be in a good condition by means of a visual check.

Since there are a lot of those little technical things present on a plane which are are required for safe flight, they need to be checked every time, hence a preflight walk-around should be done prior each take-off.
 
azjubilee
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:38 pm

Every airline and ground handling company have different procedures. At some airlines, the pilots aren't even responsible for pre flight inspections. At my company, there are FOUR kinds of inspections:

1 - Preflight, first flight of the day. This would involve a detailed inspection of the aircraft which would include a security check of certain areas of the plane. Also, the pilot performing the check would be looking for the general condition of the a/c spending more time on certain items.

2 - Preflight. This is much like the first flight of the day pre flight, but doesn't include special security checks.

3 - Walk-around. This inspection is done after an individual flight, just to make sure there were no bird strikes, other damage and to make sure that things are still in general working order.

4 - Post flight. This inspection is done when the crew is either done flying this particular a/c and will proceed to another one for subsequent flights, or the a/c is done flying for the night.


All 4 inspections are the responsibility of the Captain, however all are generally delegated to the First Officer, with the exception of the Post Flight. That one is required to be completed by the Captain. The walk-around at the intermediate stop is also usually conducted by the Captain, as the FO is busy preparing the flight deck for the next departure.

The pilot inspections, required inspections done by the mechanics, inspections done by ground handling and this time of year, the inspections by de-ice staff all create a layered environment to determine if the aircraft is ready for flight. The Captain has the ultimate authority and final say on if the a/c is in airworthy condition.
 
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Acey559
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:02 pm

Just recently when I was working, the FO came up to me after his walkaround and told me that there were issues with the aircraft. One time it was struck by lightning and a fair amount of paint chipped off. They had to call a mechanic out to write it up, and for some reason or another the flight canceled. Another time, one of the latches that keeps the engine cowling on had come undone, so I had to get a beltloader and raise it enough to re-latch it. Those are all that I can think of right now, but I know there have been more. Also, the PIC is the one required to do the walkaround, but he is allowed to delegate so usually the FO ends up doing it, especially if it's rainy or cold outside.  
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:31 pm

Our airline theres basically two types of pre-flights.

First is also known as the Daily Inspection, and it's done by maintenance once for every 24 hour period that the aircraft is flying. Basically you:
- Deal with any snags in the log books
- Check and as required top up the engine, gearbox and hydraulic oils
- Make sure all the lights work (nav, landing, beacon, leading edge, cabin/cockpit, etc)
- Check for proper inflation/pressure in the hydraulic accumulators, oleos, tires
- Have a good visual around each gear and gear bays for any signs of damage, leaks, worn tires, anything not normal really
- Have a good look around the engines (intake, exhaust, props, etc), for any signs of damage, rock chips, oil leaks, any signs of anything being sucked in, again just anything not normal
- Check the cargo pits for any obvious defects
- Do a thorough walkaround of the aircraft checking the pitot/static ports, windows, and pretty much everything you can see for any signs of damage or leaks, and making sure nothing is loose and all the panels/cowlings/doors/windows are shut properly, etc.
- Go up in the cockpit and check for any obvious damage and then hit a few test buttons for fire loops, CVR/FDR, stick shakers, that sort of thing. Also make sure oxygen bottles are filled to above a given pressure and fire extinguishers/flashlights are serviceable.
- Walk through the cabin, galleys and lavs checking smoke detectors, emergency equipment, lights, seatbelt/no smoking signs, and have a look for any obvious damage on the interior trim, seats, floors, panels, windows, etc.

Before each flight one of the pilots do their pre-flight too. Theirs includes the usual cockpit activities, and then get outside and have a walk around checking lights, and for any obvious damage or leaks around the fuselage, empenage, wings, engines, landing gear, tires, props, etc, make sure the gear pins are out, that sort of thing.


CanadianNorth
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fr8mech
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:19 pm

Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
preflights look somewhat haphazard and perfunctory.


Far from it. Most operators have the preflight procedures spelled out in the AOM (aircraft operator's manual) or equivalent. What to look for, where to look and what to do.

Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
The flight engineer doing a preflight of a Boeing 707-131B in 1971: What is he/she looking for?


Looking for damaged blades, damage to the inlet and general condition of the area. In icing conditions, he would be looking for ice.

Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
do they ever find something that will scrub a flight


In a word: yes.

Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
how often are preflights done?


This one probably varies from operator to operator, but usually prior to every flight.

Let me expand: I believe that the FAR's require a preflight walk-around prior to every floght, but whether the 'pre-flight walk-around" as defined by the operator's AOM, OpsSpec or other governing document is performed propbably relies on the length of time the aircraft is on the ground between flights.

Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
Like to hear from some crew/ramper that has actually found something of note.


Hydraulic leaks (especially in cold weather), fuel leaks, ground induced damage, burned out bulbs, missing fasteners...if it can go wrong on the exterior of the aircraft, it can be found during a preflight.

Our mechanics do a more thorough inspection. It is more properly considered a post flight (our flight crews do not perform them). This check is done after the aircraft arrives. It looks at, among other things, lights, tires, brakes, fluids, general airframe condition, some of the flight deck electronics (specifically, EICAS, ECAM or Synoptic Display) for fault annunciations and a few other things.

Maintenance will also walk around the aircraft after it is closed up and the ground equipment pulled away for a final check for damage.

The walk around is a small part of the flight crew preflight and generates only a fraction of preflight write-ups (since the stuff checked by the crew should have been checked by maintenance. The flight deck checks cause a lot more issues.

[Edited 2010-12-06 13:23:54]
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b78710
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:15 pm

We (engineering) do a walkround as soon as the aircraft pulls onto stand. Basically start at the nose, checking all pitot/static brobes, ice detectors, TAT sensors, AOA sensors. Checking for any impact damage, bird strikes, check all the aerials are there, check the tyres for condition, brake wear indicators, oleo extension, look for leaks, fuel, hydraulic, oil. Check the fronts and backs of engines, IDG oil level, make sure all latches and ducts are secured, look for dents around pax doors, and cargo doors. I normally give the gear doors a shake to make sure they're secure. Quick look in the gear bay for leaks or anything not right. I usually give the outflows a good visual aswell, half the valve could be missing and you wouldn't get any indication until the a/c won't pressurise.

The list is endless.

Last week I found a pretty big bird strike, I've found reversers still deployed, lights out, hydraulic leaks, all sorts.

A few weeks ago I was walking round a jumbo and I couldnt put my finger on what was missing. Then I realised it was a whole flap track fairning. It was written up in the log as per the CDL, but it was a funny one as I wasnt expecting it to not be there.

When you've been doing it a few years you tend to be able to do it without thinking. You can do a whole walkround while your thinking about whats for tea tonight, and still find 5 things wrong with the aircraft.
 
fr8mech
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:26 pm

Quoting b78710 (Reply 8):
A few weeks ago I was walking round a jumbo and I couldnt put my finger on what was missing

That's one of the keys to a walk around: the experience you have looking at 'good' aircraft. I can say how many times I walk around an aircraft and stopped, walked back a few steps and looked for what wasn't right.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
wn700driver
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:44 am

What everyone else has said, pretty much.

I did recently find a Bat stuck to the MLG strut of a 733 on a walk a round though. Do it long enough, and you'll see all kinds of things...
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
PGNCS
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:51 pm

Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
To a passenger, preflights look somewhat haphazard and perfunctory. Looking at today's a.net Top Five photos suggests a question. The flight engineer doing a preflight of a Boeing 707-131B in 1971: What is he/she looking for? (somewhat obvious); who does them?; do they ever find something that will scrub a flight?; how often are preflights done? Could some of you crew/rampers out there enlighten the rest of us with some of your experiences? Like to hear from some crew/ramper that has actually found something of note. Thank you all kindly.

Like others have said, it's not haphazard. The required inspections are explicitly defined in the airline's manual system, including who does the inspection and what they are looking for. In practicality at most carriers an FO does the walkaround for the cockpit crew, though I personally do walkarounds on the legs the FO is flying (that's my choice as a Captain, and many Captains don't routinely do them, though all are checked on how to do them.)

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
preflights look somewhat haphazard and perfunctory.


Far from it. Most operators have the preflight procedures spelled out in the AOM (aircraft operator's manual) or equivalent. What to look for, where to look and what to do.

  

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
Like to hear from some crew/ramper that has actually found something of note.


Hydraulic leaks (especially in cold weather), fuel leaks, ground induced damage, burned out bulbs, missing fasteners...if it can go wrong on the exterior of the aircraft, it can be found during a preflight.

Our mechanics do a more thorough inspection. It is more properly considered a post flight (our flight crews do not perform them). This check is done after the aircraft arrives. It looks at, among other things, lights, tires, brakes, fluids, general airframe condition, some of the flight deck electronics (specifically, EICAS, ECAM or Synoptic Display) for fault annunciations and a few other things.

Maintenance will also walk around the aircraft after it is closed up and the ground equipment pulled away for a final check for damage.

The walk around is a small part of the flight crew preflight and generates only a fraction of preflight write-ups (since the stuff checked by the crew should have been checked by maintenance. The flight deck checks cause a lot more issues.

Anything that can break can be found. You can find dents left by caterers, hydraulic leaks, missing access panels, cut tires, you name it, we find it. I recently found an access panel missing on an engine that grounded the airplane until a new part could be flown in.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 10):
What everyone else has said, pretty much.

I did recently find a Bat stuck to the MLG strut of a 733 on a walk a round though. Do it long enough, and you'll see all kinds of things...

Wow! that's an interesting one! Did the airplane happen to go through Austin?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:10 pm

Out here Part of the Maintenance checks is a Transit Inspection or Preflight check.This is carried out by a qualified Maintenance person following a checklist/taskcard.
In addition one of the flying crew too carry out a walkaround inspecton.mainly looking for leaks/damages.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
PolymerPlane
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:23 pm

how do you do walkaround on larger planes? How do you check for items far above ground that you can't really see?
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b78710
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:14 pm

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 13):
how do you do walkaround on larger planes? How do you check for items far above ground that you can't really see?

We do ours from the ground. Also theres a task on the transit to check the upper surface of the wings from the cabin windows.

But to be honest theres not a lot above the ground to go wrong that you cant see from the ground. All the aerials up there you can see from the ground, any leaks from the stab or fin will run down and you'd see anyway, very unlikely to get any damage on the upper surfaces. The only thing really is lightning strikes. But they would normally be written up anyway and an inspection would be carried out IAW chapter 5.

I guess they do an inspection at A check that is a bit more detailed
 
pilotpip
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:40 pm

Quoting PolymerPlane (Reply 13):
how do you do walkaround on larger planes? How do you check for items far above ground that you can't really see?

You step back a couple feet and look up. As others have said there isn't much you wouldn't be able to see on the ground. Even the biggest aircraft aren't so big that you can't see the top. If you can't, you're probably not going to be holding onto your medical very long.
DMI
 
474218
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:24 pm

Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
To a passenger, preflights look somewhat haphazard and perfunctory.
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
Far from it. Most operators have the preflight procedures spelled out in the AOM (aircraft operator's manual) or equivalent. What to look for, where to look and what to do.


The pre-flight walk arounds are established by the OEM and taught to the crews during flight training. There are specific items they are looking for not a detailed inspection of the entire airframe!

The attached cover is from a 94 page pamphlet Lockheed prepared for L-1011 flight crews..



I also included the page showing the recommend route to follow around the aircraft to be able to see all the recommend items to check.

 
2H4
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:45 pm

On the smaller scale, I once found a broken vertical stab attachment bracket on a Cessna 152 that grounded the aircraft.

Another time, I was preflighting another 152 that had just gotten out of a 100-hour inspection and had trouble determining where the oil line was on the dipstick. Two CFIs assured me that the oil was at the appropriate level, explaining that new oil is very clean and much more difficult to see on a silver dipstick. I wasn't convinced, and decided to take a different airplane. Which was a good thing, because as it turned out, the mechanic forgot to refill the engine oil.

There's an organization called NIFA (National Intercollegiate Flying Association) in which aviation universities in the US compete in various flying and non-flying aviation events. One of the non-flying events is the preflight competition, in which judges "bug" an airplane, and students are tasked with finding as many bugs as possible in a limited amount of time. It gets very interesting. I've seen props installed backward, registration numbers that don't match, ailerons that deflect in the same direction when the yoke is turned, backward-rigged elevators, rubber snakes, missing placards, and all kinds of other fun things. You learn a lot competing with NIFA.
Intentionally Left Blank
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:59 pm

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 9):
Quoting b78710 (Reply 8):
A few weeks ago I was walking round a jumbo and I couldnt put my finger on what was missing

That's one of the keys to a walk around: the experience you have looking at 'good' aircraft. I can say how many times I walk around an aircraft and stopped, walked back a few steps and looked for what wasn't right.

The same for me. I had a discussion last week with a young mechanic, who thinks that he needs 30 minutes + to carry out a postflight walkaround on a 747-400. On the other hand, he is still quite new at it and needs to check each point conciously. For myself I do my usual pattern (very important to do the check ALWAYS in the same pattern, so that, if you get interrupted e.g. by a loader or fueler, you can start right again where you left off without missing anything) and somehow, like you, notice that there is something wrong. On the second look I see what it actually is.

Jan
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wn700driver
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:37 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 11):
Wow! that's an interesting one! Did the airplane happen to go through Austin?

Oddly enough, we are in DFW... Like Austin, but not famously, we got bats!
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
PGNCS
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:45 am

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 19):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 11):
Wow! that's an interesting one! Did the airplane happen to go through Austin?

Oddly enough, we are in DFW... Like Austin, but not famously, we got bats!

Well I got the state right, anyway!  
 
josekmlb
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:20 am

I always checked for holes and nails in the tires, leaking fluids, static discharges, ice in the winter , any a/c damage or panels missing that were not in the MEL/CDL, and chips or cracks in the fan blades on my walk arounds as a ramper.
 
ThirtyEcho
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:24 pm

There is hardly anything at all haphazard about a walkaround. Even the smallest of light aircraft have a walkaround checklist and you would use the same routine every time, following the same path around the airplane. I encourage everyone, no matter how many times you have preflighted the same airplane in your life, to carry the checklist with you during the walkaround.

I always added my own personal items to the list that were born out of previous aggravating experiences.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:30 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 17):
the mechanic forgot to refill the engine oil.

Isn't a grd run needed post oil replacement.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 17):
You learn a lot competing with NIFA.

Great Idea.

regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
contrails15
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:04 pm

Speaking for myself as a ramp agent..... Plane blocks in I immediately do a walk a round. Why? If I find something such as a dent, open panel ect. ect. my crew doesn't get blamed if it hasn't already been documented when that plane gets to the station its going too. Basically, cover my ass. Pilot comes down, usual its the FO and he or she does there walk around. Depending on the pilot, it can be a very throe walk around or Wham bam thank you mam'e. Flight is loaded, cargo doors are lock and everything is off the aircraft except of the course the push back and then I will do a post walk around to make sure my crew, provo and whoever might of been near the a/c didn't do any damage and make sure all panels and doors are secure. That's when you get on the HS and tell the captain the aircraft is secure and we're waiting to push.

Hope that helps.


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alwaysontherun
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:59 am

Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 22):
I encourage everyone, no matter how many times you have preflighted the same airplane in your life, to carry the checklist with you during the walkaround.

You struck a nerve……..I will actually start making one tomorrow!
I own the humblest of all aircraft, but still--> all pre-flight checks still take me at least 20 minutes before flashing up the donk. I´d like to think I´m thorough, but a checklist is never a bad idea. (Arrogance can be quite fatal).

We work with the lists within my (non aviation) profession, and I reckon we would have been caught with our pants down a few times if we wouldn´t have had the good old lists. (last but not least: Item #20: "pull pants up, and lash securely").

Quoting b78710 (Reply 8):
The list is endless.

Very interesting post………cheers!

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 17):
On the smaller scale, I once found a broken vertical stab attachment bracket on a Cessna 152 that grounded the aircraft.

That´s stuff that I´m always looking for.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 17):
explaining that new oil is very clean and much more difficult to see on a silver dipstick. I wasn't convinced

That is a problem sometimes………it´s hard to see.
I know on a non-aviational level of a certain example where one person bled the turbo blower oil, filled them up but forgot 1 compartment--> and went off watch. The next engineer checked all gauges apart from that 1 inconvenient gauge that is hard to reach, in a hot and sweaty spot…………
The result was devastating……….and co$t!!!

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 17):
I've seen props installed backward, registration numbers that don't match, ailerons that deflect in the same direction when the yoke is turned, backward-rigged elevators, rubber snakes, missing placards, and all kinds of other fun things.

You could have fooled me with a few of these.
I don´t bank on sabotage though……maybe I should.


###"I´m always on the Run"###
"Failure is not an option, it comes standard in any Windows product" - an anonymous MAC owner.
 
CosmicCruiser
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:52 pm

Quoting ThirtyEcho (Reply 22):
no matter how many times you have preflighted the same airplane in your life, to carry the checklist with you during the walkaround

Every year in recurrent training we must review a power point program of the entire jet, area by area, and point out to the instructor what we are looking for and point out any incorrect items. Of course at the jet the mechanics have done a more thorough inspection themselves.
 
MerlinIIIB
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:10 pm

Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
do they ever find something that will scrub a flight?

Walkaround can be a life saver.

15 years ago at an International airport, a small turbine twin aircraft was prepared for an early morning aerial photography flight. During walkaround the pilot touched the rudder by hand and it felt loose. The rudder mechanism was destroyed by a 737 engine blast earlier that morning. The controls felt OK inside the cockpit, and the rudder was visually intact. Take-off would result in an immediate roll.
 
b78710
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:56 pm

Found a massive hydraulic leak on a 744 last week. Skydrol all over the belly, 15 quarts uplifted. The left wheel well was like a skydrol swimming pool. LH CLCP leaking from the output into the spoiler mixer unit.

that canned the flight  
 
spchamp1
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:15 pm

Just like Contrails pointed out, at our airline the Ramp Lead is required to do a walkaround post arrival and then again pre departure. Most of the time here in LGB the Ramp Lead will conduct a walk around, followed up by our MX guys completing a meet and greet (doing a more thorough walk around, checking for leaks, wiping down taxi lights, etc...), one member of the flight deck will complete theirs, and prior to departure the Ramp Lead will again complete another walk around to verify all panels and doors are closed and secure and no damage occured during the turn.

P.S. - Contrails, what did you think of our Safety video?
 
2H4
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:28 am

Quoting alwaysontherun (Reply 25):
You could have fooled me with a few of these.

Well, if you managed to get the airplane with the backward prop all the way to the runway without noticing...then I'd be worried.
Intentionally Left Blank
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:43 am

Quoting alwaysontherun (Reply 25):

You struck a nerve……..I will actually start making one tomorrow!

Out here....The Taskcard has to be in possession of the qualified Indvidual carrying out the check from Maintenance.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
alwaysontherun
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:07 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 30):
Well, if you managed to get the airplane with the backward prop all the way to the runway without noticing...then I'd be worried.

Never underestimate a good hangover…………

But seriously, if we´re talking about the walk around (before flashing up) I look for certain things, but my mechanic could quite easily booby-trap me I suppose……..if he wanted to.

But yes you´re right, the next step is to do all the system-checks while warming up the donk and my elevator going the wrong way around, the prop pushing air forward, a blocked exhaust system or a low battery would certainly catch my eye.

I guess once I start parking my plane at other clubs or another airfields, the walk around needs to be done even more thorough!

Is the pitot tube cover also part of the walk around?
Nearly forgot that one yesterday!!!
Shame on me!!

###"I´m always on the Run"###
"Failure is not an option, it comes standard in any Windows product" - an anonymous MAC owner.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:40 pm

Quoting alwaysontherun (Reply 32):
Is the pitot tube cover also part of the walk around?
Nearly forgot that one yesterday!!!
Shame on me!!

Serious......
Blanks/locks/pins are an Important check.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
contrails15
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:43 pm

Quoting spchamp1 (Reply 29):
P.S. - Contrails, what did you think of our Safety video?

Haven't seen any of them. I did see that they are up though but just haven't had the chance to check them out.
Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
2H4
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:19 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 23):
Isn't a grd run needed post oil replacement.

I'm not sure. Perhaps it ran fine for a brief amount of time.
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pilotpip
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:43 pm

When you do 3-5 inspections in a day it is very easy to get complacent. However it has been my experience that every time this begins to happen I find something that knocks me back into reality and reminds me to do my job at a higher level. In the past year I've found:

Numerous lights burned out/lenses cracked.
Flat tires
Cut tires
Missing static wicks
A hydraulic leak
FOD damaged engine cowling
And my favorite: wrenches in an access panel after a heavy check (happened more than once, and we no longer use this MRO for anything.)
DMI
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:09 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 35):

I'm not sure. Perhaps it ran fine for a brief amount of time.

The smallest of leak would be noticeable.
egds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
2H4
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:48 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 37):
The smallest of leak would be noticeable.

But a dry engine may not be. The mechanic could do a very brief runup without paying attention to the temp, and shut down before it seizes.
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Silver1SWA
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:51 am

Quoting san747 (Reply 1):
Both one of the pilots and the ramper that guides the aircraft into the gate and pushes it out do seperate walkarounds

That varies at every company. Some airlines require a pilot do an inspection for every flight, and others leave it up to the ramp crew some of the time with pilots usually doing them at the beginning of the day, end of the day and any other time they take over a different aircraft.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 9):
That's one of the keys to a walk around: the experience you have looking at 'good' aircraft. I can say how many times I walk around an aircraft and stopped, walked back a few steps and looked for what wasn't right.

I have spotted things wrong from 3 gates away! I was once working in the bag room (where we have a clear view of a few of our gates) and spotted something wrong. The aircraft had to be pulled from service. So it's true, look at planes long enough and anything that isn't right will jump out at you right away.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 10):
I did recently find a Bat stuck to the MLG strut of a 733 on a walk a round though. Do it long enough, and you'll see all kinds of things...

The best one I saw recently was the wing of a bird hanging from under the outer portion of the wing on a 737-700. Just the bird's wing, but it was hanging there. According to the pilots, it happened on departure from the upline city so it was there the entire flight! Ramp crew at a neighboring gate spotted it as it was on the #1 side.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:02 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 38):

But a dry engine may not be. The mechanic could do a very brief runup without paying attention to the temp, and shut down before it seizes.

What about the Oil Qty gauge......Parameter observation is critical during ground runs.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
wn700driver
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:05 am

Quoting alwaysontherun (Reply 32):

Is the pitot tube cover also part of the walk around?
Nearly forgot that one yesterday!!!
Shame on me!!

Don't feel so bad. At the Airline I contract with now, an E-190 managed to take all the way off one morning, and promptly return for an emergency landing when their airspeed and vs indicators started going all over the place. The culprit? Yup, pitot covers left on. What's worse, they were melted onto/around the units as the heat feature comes on when that AC starts up! I'm sure a few people were pretty red-faced over that one!

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 36):

And my favorite: wrenches in an access panel after a heavy check (happened more than once, and we no longer use this MRO for anything.)

One of my favorite wrenches was one I found inside a fuel tank, while inspecting a fuel pump. Seeing as there was paint in ever screw on that panel (and on the PRC sealant), I know that it hadn't been open since it's last visit to our MRO service provider, almost a year before! Anyway, it's a real bea-ut, an 11/16, 12 pointer with a ratcheting end, and a standard box-end. Just about perfect for a lot of the gear bay work I seem to do.
Base not your happiness on the deeds of others, for what is given can be taken away. No Hope = No Fear
 
2H4
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:03 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 40):
What about the Oil Qty gauge......Parameter observation is critical during ground runs.

No such gauge in the Cessna 152. Oil level is checked with a dipstick attached to the cap.
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474218
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:41 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 40):
What about the Oil Qty gauge......Parameter observation is critical during ground runs.
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 42):
No such gauge in the Cessna 152. Oil level is checked with a dipstick attached to the cap.

Oil quality is not normally a walk around item!

Quoting pilotpip (Reply 36):
And my favorite: wrenches in an access panel after a heavy check (happened more than once, and we no longer use this MRO for anything.)

When I was in the USAF a friend left his flashlight (standard Air Force green plastic) inside the starter access panel on an SR-71 nacelle. He realized it when he returned to the shop but the aircraft had taken off. He asked me go with him when the plane returned to look for his flashlight. After the plane landed, the first thing we saw was a shinny streak extending aft on the bottom of the nacelle coming from the starter access panel. I said, I think that's your flashlight. When we got the panel open there was nothing left except a glob of black stuff we figured was the batteries. It took several hours to get area cleaned up.

I went inside a fuel tank on an SR one day to change a boost pump. While in there I found a real nice "bucking bar" (dolly) that someone at Lockheed had left there during production. Lockheed used real nice store bought "bucking bars" we had to build our own and have them harden by the welding shop.
 
2H4
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:34 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 43):
quality

I think he meant "quantity".

Quoting 474218 (Reply 43):
When I was in the USAF a friend left his flashlight (standard Air Force green plastic) inside the starter access panel on an SR-71 nacelle. He realized it when he returned to the shop but the aircraft had taken off. He asked me go with him when the plane returned to look for his flashlight. After the plane landed, the first thing we saw was a shinny streak extending aft on the bottom of the nacelle coming from the starter access panel. I said, I think that's your flashlight. When we got the panel open there was nothing left except a glob of black stuff we figured was the batteries. It took several hours to get area cleaned up.

Wow, cool story. Don't be stingy with the Blackbird stories!
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HAWK21M
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:55 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 43):

Oil quality is not normally a walk around item!

But it sure can be a Engine startup item.You would want to know if you have oil before startup.

On the topic of Finding items during checks.....On Major checks I have found Cellphones,Bucking bars & a Gold ring  

regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
KevinL1011
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:54 am

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 10):
I did recently find a Bat stuck to the MLG strut of a 733 on a walk a round though.

Eeeew! That's what Darwin would say happens to bats with a hearing disability.   

Quoting b78710 (Reply 8):
The list is endless.

Doesn't anybody look for FOD in the pushback area? I'd hate to suck something up during engine start.

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 44):
Wow, cool story. Don't be stingy with the Blackbird stories!

Yeah! I did not know that about you. And who serviced those twin Oldsmobile V-8's on the start cart? I'd love to have that job.   
474218, Carl, You will be missed.
 
474218
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:31 pm

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 46):
Yeah! I did not know that about you. And who serviced those twin Oldsmobile V-8's on the start cart? I'd love to have that job.


Kevin,

The original start carts used Buick engines (nail valve 425's) the later start carts used 454 Chevy's. They were maintained by the Aircraft Ground Equipment (AGE) shop. The had no mufflers and short headers. Standing next to one was deafening, until the J-58 started then you forgot about the start cart. Both engines powered a single transmission and a flex shaft that had a gear on the end that mated with the starter drive on the engine.

There was a screwed on access panel that had to be replaced after engine start and if they broke a nutplate when securing the panel someone from the sheet metal shop had to go replace it prior to dispatch. That is how the flash light got in there. My buddy was replacing a nutplate with the engines running.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:15 am

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 46):
Doesn't anybody look for FOD in the pushback area? I'd hate to suck something up during engine start.

Thats Def done prior to Pushback.
There have been a few sucessfull discoveries too,including a chock once.
regds
MEL.
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
SEPilot
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RE: Preflight Walk-arounds

Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:44 pm

I have only done walk-arounds on small aircraft; the primary things I look for are damage, leaks, and control continuity. I always look at the actual fittings on the control surface bellcranks; the last thing I want to have happen is for a control cable to come off in the air.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler

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