egph
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Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:39 am

Hey all,

Just a theoretical question that came to mind today for those more in the know than me to answer!

What are the limits/thresholds for an aircraft to be single pilot certified like I know some VLJs are? I am particularly interested in whether any Learjets could be flown by one pilot up front especially when it comes to the larger models like the 45.

Also on those aircraft that can have just the one pilot, does said pilot have to have any special training or certification to take the yoke alone or can any certified pilot on that plane (do they even do type ratings with biz jets?) go single pilot if the aircraft is capable?

Kind regards and sorry for my ignorance!!
 
KELPkid
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:13 am

Quoting egph (Thread starter):
Also on those aircraft that can have just the one pilot, does said pilot have to have any special training or certification to take the yoke alone or can any certified pilot on that plane (do they even do type ratings with biz jets?) go single pilot if the aircraft is capable?

Yes, single-pilot is an add-on to the type rating for the jet (at least in the FAA's eyes   ). You must possess both a type rating in the jet and a single pilot type rating for the same jet.
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
411A
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:01 am

And no, not possible with LearJets...all are two pilot airplanes, so far as I know.
 
citationjet
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:23 am

For the Cessna Citations, some are single pilot, and others require two pilots.

The Mustang, CJ1, CJ2, CJ3, CJ4, can all be flown single pilot if flown Part 91. The Mustang, CJ1, and CJ2 are certified Part 23 normal category. The CJ3 and CJ4 are Part 23 commuter category (>12,500 lb MTOW).

The 560XL, 650, Sovereign, and Citation X all require two pilots. They are Part 25.

The Citation Model 550 (Citation II, and Bravo) and Model 560 (Citation V, Ultra, Encore, and Encore+) CAN be flown single pilot per Exemption 4050. These are Part 25.
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liedetectors
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:39 am

Quoting 411A (Reply 2):
Citation X all require two pilots. They are Part 25.

False. I met a pilot who told me that he has a waiver to fly the CX single pilot. Mind you he told me he could not carry any pax.
If it was said by us, then it must be true.
 
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tb727
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:05 am

Quoting 411A (Reply 2):
And no, not possible with LearJets...all are two pilot airplanes, so far as I know.

Bill Lear originally wanted the Lear 23 to be a single pilot plane. That is why the MTOW is 12,499. The FAA saying no probably saved a lot of lives and the Learjet itself.
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
citationjet
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:09 am

Quoting liedetectors (Reply 4):
False. I met a pilot who told me that he has a waiver to fly the CX single pilot

I find that very hard to believe. The Citation X (Model 750) Type Certificate Data Sheet T00007WI says "Minimum crew for all flights: 2 persons (pilot and co-pilot)". I work for Cessna in aircaft certification and have never heard of this exemption for the Citation X.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...keModel.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet

.
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
DashTrash
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:52 am

Quoting liedetectors (Reply 4):
False. I met a pilot who told me that he has a waiver to fly the CX single pilot. Mind you he told me he could not carry any pax.

I don't believe him.

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 6):

I find that very hard to believe. The Citation X (Model 750) Type Certificate Data Sheet T00007WI says "Minimum crew for all flights: 2 persons (pilot and co-pilot)". I work for Cessna in aircaft certification and have never heard of this exemption for the Citation X.

Bingo. Two crew are required per the AFM limitations section. I had to regurgitate that one on my 750 type ride. There is no certificate out there that gives you permission to exceed or ignore aircraft limitations.
 
pilotpip
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:14 am

The Premier can also be flown single pilot.

In almost all cases it's much less expensive to pay a second pilot to sit in the right seat than it is to get the single pilot type and pay the astronomical insurance rates to operate the aircraft with only one person up front.
DMI
 
411A
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:57 am

Quoting 411A (Reply 2):
Citation X all require two pilots. They are Part 25.

False. I met a pilot who told me that he has a waiver to fly the CX single pilot. Mind you he told me he could not carry any pax.


I indicated no such thing.

[Edited 2010-12-14 00:10:02]
 
26point2
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:31 pm

Quoting egph (Thread starter):
do they even do type ratings with biz jets

FAA requires a type rating to fly any jet, biz or otherwise, or anything with max cert TO weight greater than 12,500 lbs. DC=3 and some bigger King Airs require a type rating for example.
 
2H4
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:36 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 7):
Quoting liedetectors (Reply 4):
False. I met a pilot who told me that he has a waiver to fly the CX single pilot. Mind you he told me he could not carry any pax.

I don't believe him.

Methinks this came from a test pilot, employed by the manufacturer and flying X's under experimental certification.
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2H4
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:38 pm

Quoting tb727 (Reply 5):
Bill Lear originally wanted the Lear 23 to be a single pilot plane.

Ironically, the Lear 23 originally was a single-pilot plane!


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tb727
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:42 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 12):

Ironically, the Lear 23 originally was a single-pilot plane!

Haha, this is the point when I used to remind the Lear pilots that I flew a jet that was based on a fighter that wasn't a failure(Falcon).
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nws2002
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:34 pm

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 3):
The Mustang, CJ1, CJ2, CJ3, CJ4, can all be flown single pilot if flown Part 91.

They can also be flown single pilot in 135 operations. I worked for a 135 op that flew a C525 single pilot, but eventually moved to two pilot for a few reasons. The first was passenger preference, many passengers preferred two pilots and many companies require it. The second was insurance costs, it was cheaper to put a low time person in the right seat than pay the higher insurance premium for single pilot.

Quoting egph (Thread starter):
I am particularly interested in whether any Learjets could be flown by one pilot up front especially when it comes to the larger models like the 45.

Like the others have pointed out I don't think this is possible. Most single pilot jets were designed from the outset with that in mind. The Cessna line of bizjets appeals to the owner-pilot more than the Learjets/Falcons/etc, and so they designed them with a single pilot option in mind.
 
citationjet
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:52 pm

Quoting liedetectors (Reply 4):
I met a pilot who told me that he has a waiver to fly the CX single pilot. Mind you he told me he could not carry any pax.
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 11):
Methinks this came from a test pilot, employed by the manufacturer and flying X's under experimental certification.

I just talked to Cessna's engineering test pilots responsible for the Citation X in a meeting this afternoon. They confirmed that it is impossible to legally fly the 560XL, Sovereign, or the Citation X single pilot. It has never been done legally, and there is no exemption or waiver that would allow it.
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egph
Topic Author
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:31 pm

Thank you to evryone for contributing to this interesting discussion
 
26point2
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:13 pm

Clay Lacy was known to roll up to the chocks in his Lear 23 with no one else on board. Not legal but he did operate a turbojet single pilot on occasion.
 
Lemmy
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:02 pm

From what I understand, whether the regs say you can fly a jet alone isn't the biggest hurdle. The trick is getting an insurance company to cover you when you do.
I am a patient boy ...
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:39 pm

Quoting Lemmy (Reply 18):
From what I understand, whether the regs say you can fly a jet alone isn't the biggest hurdle. The trick is getting an insurance company to cover you when you do.

Sure, if you want to fly with insurance. Don't forget, no insurance is mandatory on planes in the United States, so keep that in mind.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
nws2002
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RE: Single Pilot Operations For Biz Jets

Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:15 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 19):
Sure, if you want to fly with insurance. Don't forget, no insurance is mandatory on planes in the United States, so keep that in mind.

Most aircraft financing requires insurance however, and if you are flying 135 so do many customers or their companies as well as industry accredidations/standards.

You are correct though, if you purchase the aircraft outright, and fly it Part 91 there are zero insurance requirements.

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