dimik747
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A321 Efficiency

Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:03 pm

Hello Everybody/Happy New Year

Yesterday i was flying on an A321 for two sectors and it occured to me that while the plane is longer and heavier than the A320 how can it be efficient by having the same wingspan (besides the different flaps) as the A320. The way i see it the longer the wingspan the more lift it provided making an airplane more efficient in operation. I am not questioning the type as if it was not efficient no airline would use it, so im just asking how it manages to stay efficient and competitive considering the reletavely short wingspan.

Thank you
Dimk747
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: A321 Efficiency

Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:07 pm

You have a point but you have to looks at total cost of ownership.

First of all, the aircraft needs the most lift at landing, at which point the double-slotted slats take up a lot of the slack.

Secondly, the cost of developing a dedicated aircraft at the targeted capacity is way higher than developing a derivative.

Thirdly, following on the last point, airlines can pay less for a derivative. Even assuming higher operating cost, the TOTAL cost of ownership will be lower.

Fourthly, commonality with 318-320.
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cobra27
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RE: A321 Efficiency

Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:22 pm

Actually even much smaller A319 also has the same wing, am not sure which wing A318 has. 737 wariants have each different wings.
And A380-800 wing was optimised for A380-900 model. It is quite commom thing in Airbus philosophy the A330/A340 (except A340-500/600) have all the same wing.
Does anybody lnopw about A350 wings?
 
dimik747
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RE: A321 Efficiency

Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:50 pm

Thanks for the above replies
btw the A318 has the same wing as the rest of them
 
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longhauler
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RE: A321 Efficiency

Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:24 pm

Last year, during a review of operations and costs. Our management stated that on a five hour trans-con flight, the A321 had/has the best seat mile costs of anything in the fleet.

This makes sense, with only a modest increase in fuel burn, it carries about 30 more passengers than an A320.

So that is better than the A330, B767 and B777 on a 5 hour flight. Which is probably why all the LCCs stick to narrow body aircraft for that mission. It would be interesting to see how the A321 compares with the B737-800 or -900. As, with a similar mission, they have a very different wing philosophy.
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TS-IOR
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RE: A321 Efficiency

Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:43 pm

Regarding performance, A321 has a low rate of climb, which could affect fuel burn, and thus the fuel consumption a bit higher than smaller aircrafts from the family, but the extra number of passengers that could be carried makes the profit and the efficiency needed for airlines.
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Starlionblue
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RE: A321 Efficiency

Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:38 pm

Quoting cobra27 (Reply 2):
Actually even much smaller A319 also has the same wing, am not sure which wing A318 has. 737 wariants have each different wings.

Nope. All the 737NG aircraft (600-900) have the same wing. The only difference between aircraft is the winglets.
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prebennorholm
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RE: A321 Efficiency

Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:16 am

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 5):
Regarding performance, A321 has a low rate of climb....

That depends entirely upon which engine is on the plane.

321s come with 30, 31 or 33k lbs engines. 320s out there have engines in the 22 to 27k lbs range.

A high powered 321 climbs faster than a low powered 320, and visa versa.

For the various 737NG versions it is basically the same. There are half a dozen CFM56-7B engine variants on those planes with take-off thrust from 19.5k lbs to 27.3k lbs.
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longhauler
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RE: A321 Efficiency

Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:30 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 7):
321s come with 30, 31 or 33k lbs engines. 320s out there have engines in the 22 to 27k lbs range.

A high powered 321 climbs faster than a low powered 320, and visa versa.


It has been a few years since I flew the A320 series, but I found the same thing. The A321 out-climbed the A320 by rate, but due to the G-limit on the wing, could not get as high. So above around 30,000 feet, the A320 was climbing at 500-700 fpm, but could go to say 36,000 but the A321 was climbing at 1500 fpm to its limit of 32,000.
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cobra27
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RE: A321 Efficiency

Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:54 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
Nope. All the 737NG aircraft (600-900) have the same wing. The only difference between aircraft is the winglets.

No, BBJ has 737-700 fuselage and 737-800 wing, it was even posted on Boeing website
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: A321 Efficiency

Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:04 pm

Quoting cobra27 (Reply 9):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
Nope. All the 737NG aircraft (600-900) have the same wing. The only difference between aircraft is the winglets.

No, BBJ has 737-700 fuselage and 737-800 wing, it was even posted on Boeing website

The wingspan is identical for all the NG models. I'm pretty sure the geometry is the same but the heavier models have a stronger structure.
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Revelation
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RE: A321 Efficiency

Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:08 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 6):
Nope. All the 737NG aircraft (600-900) have the same wing.

Perhaps the same planform, but they do have different construction based on what loads need to be carried.

CF: Differences Between 737-700 And 737-800 Wings (by CM767 Feb 2 2006 in Tech Ops)
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