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DocLightning
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What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:51 am

I know it seems like a silly question, but I see bags being loaded and unloaded all the time. What goes on inside the hold? Are there shelves? Do they just stack them up? For larger aircraft like a 747, is there a conveyor belt of some sort? Some airlines treat F and J bags with priority. How do they organize the hold to allow that?
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b78710
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:49 am

Jumbo has a belt and pulley system that drives rubber wheels to move the bins fore and aft in the hold and then laterally at the mouth of the door.

340-300 use a system of PDU's (power drive units) esentially the same as the jumbo but without the belts and bulleys, just a motor spinning a rubber wheel. The 340-600's have a slighlty more complex system of PDU's with light sensors, so that the motor only turns when a bin is directly over it. Saves on wear but its a bugger when the sensors get a bit dirty.

We hardly ever get any problems with the jumbo cargo loading systems, the odd snapped belt or sheared driveshaft. Whereas the 340-600 I probably get called up there every 3 or 4 days for a problem. Its just to clever for its own good.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:12 am

As I understand it, before you go load into the hold, there are two main methods:
- "Loose", where the bags are just "piled in" one by one in the hold. Most common on "smaller" aircraft, say 737/320 and down.
- Containerized, where the bags are put in aircraft cargo containers like any other cargo and then these are put in the hold. Most common on larger aircraft. Even an aircraft uses containers, there may be holds that do not use containers due to shape. So these get "loose" bags.

Some 320 operators, for example, use containers, while some go "loose". Depends on operational demands.
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Goldenshield
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:57 pm

On the narrowbodies (sans certain A320s,) it will be bulk, manual loading. The bags get stacked (not piled, as that would connotate that they are just thrown in without care) together to form walls. When you have a nice variety of bags to choose from, it's easier than one thinks, but it takes some time before one really gets good stacking bags without knowing what's coming up the belt.

On the widebodies, the same thing is done with the containers, and then the containers are loaded onto the plane. Anything arriving last minute (or live animals) will be loaded into the bulk bin.
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planewasted
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:10 pm

Won't the bags move around if they are just stacked? Or are they secured somehow?
 
planenut767
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:13 pm

Quoting PlaneWasted (Reply 4):

Won't the bags move around if they are just stacked? Or are they secured somehow?

Once they're stacked they have cargo nets that are installed to keep the bags from moving and shifting. On occasion though the ramp doesn't secure the nets properly and the result is a door that won't open. On widebodies they have retractable locks that are put down to install the containers and brought back up to secure them in place.
 
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:19 pm

Quoting PlaneWasted (Reply 4):
Won't the bags move around if they are just stacked? Or are they secured somehow?

There are a lot of different nets that can get installed in the cargo holds, with many different configurations depending on how the bin needs to be set up. While items in the bin can shift and move around, the movement is limited by these nets to avoid large weight shifts, damage to cargo bin walls/aircraft, and damage to the rest of the items in the hold.
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airportugal310
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:20 pm

On 717's I used to load, it was just bulk/manual loading in the back in no real order. The name of the game was to not waste any room and make it one big interlocking 'puzzle'. With handles out!!! Could not stand having to yank the bags OUT if it wasn't done that way...

Quoting planenut767 (Reply 5):
On occasion though the ramp doesn't secure the nets properly and the result is a door that won't open.

True. Then it becomes a pushing and shoving match to try and force it open enough to yank a bag or four out to make it open.
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Goldenshield
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:44 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 6):
There are a lot of different nets that can get installed in the cargo holds, with many different configurations depending on how the bin needs to be set up.

This may have changed since I ramped, but the MD-80s I loaded only had curtains on the blocker door, and that was it. If stacked correctly, there should be little if any shifting at all during normal flight regimes. It would have to take some serious forward or backward inertia to move the bags.
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jwenting
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:49 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 3):
On the narrowbodies (sans certain A320s,) it will be bulk, manual loading.

A320 as designed was to require containerised only, but this was later changed to allowing either containerised or loose loading.
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Drfix2fly
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:51 pm

its like that samsonite comercial from the 1980s a giant gorilla jumps up and down on the bags untill they are unloaded at your destination
 
Goldenshield
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:59 pm

Quoting jwenting (Reply 9):
A320 as designed was to require containerised only, but this was later changed to allowing either containerised or loose loading.

Like I said, sans certain A320s. In otherwords, yes, I know that there were a number of A320s built that were built to accept containers.
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KELPkid
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:41 pm

So, is any provision made for bags that are arriving at a final destination vs. ones that are making a connection? I'm especially interested in how this is handled in bulk-loaded aircraft   I'm really, really interested in how point-to-point carriers like WN load bags in regards to connections.
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RJLover
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:49 pm

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 11):
Like I said, sans certain A320s. In otherwords, yes, I know that there were a number of A320s built that were built to accept containers.

Most of AC's A320s are configured to be container loaded. The execptions being the Jetz aircraft when they are in the Jetz config., they are bulk loaded. In the summer the aircraft are returned to the mainline config, both above and below the wing (standard mainline seating and containerized loading).

As far as loading the bags themselves....

When I was throwing bags for WS/QX, stacking was hard work, but was fun to do. It is like playing a giant game of Tetrus. You have no idea what shape the next bag will be, until you get it in your hand. So long as the bags were stacked nice and tight, they weren't going anywhere. CNX bags were always loaded seperately from local bags. CNX bags that had less then 45 minutes to connect (hot bags) were always loaded seperately from the rest of the bags so they could be offloaded right away.

All the aircraft I loaded were bulk loaded, I've never had to load a containerized aircraft.
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tdscanuck
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:56 pm

Quoting b78710 (Reply 1):
340-300 use a system of PDU's (power drive units) esentially the same as the jumbo but without the belts and bulleys, just a motor spinning a rubber wheel.

Boeing has gone this way on all the new stuff too...767, 777, 787, and 747-8F use the PDU-style system.

Tom.
 
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:41 pm

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 7):
True. Then it becomes a pushing and shoving match to try and force it open enough to yank a bag or four out to make it open.

Yes it does, but every once in a while that's not enough depending on how the bags and cargo ended up. When brute strength doesn't work you have to go to plan b, which is go up into the cabin and take floor boards and seat rows out to access the cargo pit from up above and dislodge it that way. I should say that taking that kind of action is rare (at least in my case).
 
A333TS
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:58 am

Are there any pictures of the hold on a.net, or can someone take a picture of different areas for us to see (without getting in trouble).


A333TS
 
c5load
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:07 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 2):
Containerized, where the bags are put in aircraft cargo containers like any other cargo and then these are put in the hold.

I've always wondered how are bags loaded into the containers? Is there a certain system for catogerizing bags? Example: A 767 from LAX-ATL, are connecting international bags all loaded in one container, connecting domestic bags in one, terminating bags in one? You get the picture.



Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 7):
Could not stand having to yank the bags OUT if it wasn't done that way...

Indeed! Or having all the damn golf bags and hard cases in the doorway, so they all slide out at you the second you open the door!
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PWMRamper
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:35 am

Quoting A333TS (Reply 16):
Are there any pictures of the hold on a.net, or can someone take a picture of different areas for us to see (without getting in trouble).


A333TS

Next time I'm at work I'll take a few pictures of an RJ200/700 rear bin.
 
Maverick623
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:06 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12):
So, is any provision made for bags that are arriving at a final destination vs. ones that are making a connection? I'm especially interested in how this is handled in bulk-loaded aircraft I'm really, really interested in how point-to-point carriers like WN load bags in regards to connections.

Connecting bags are generally loaded last, in front of the local bags, so that they're the first off the airplane.
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pwm2txlhopper
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:31 am

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I know it seems like a silly question, but I see bags being loaded and unloaded all the time. What goes on inside the hold? Are there shelves? Do they just stack them up? For larger aircraft like a 747, is there a conveyor belt of some sort? Some airlines treat F and J bags with priority. How do they organize the hold to allow that?


No shelves. Just a big open aluminum bins, On narrow-bodies the bags are essentially just stacked together. As stated, it takes a while to get good at stacking them and utilizing the available space to get as many bags packed in as possible. It's kind of like putting together a puzzle. You don't want gaps of open space between bags. As little as possible. Finding a way to to put them all together tightly, thus minimizing open space between them is where the skill comes in. On heavily loaded flights, sloppy stacking with open gaps wastes precious bin space when you ad up the volume of all the open space between bags that aren't stacked together tightly.

Narrowbody bins can be a bit cramped. Particularly, DC-9's and MD-80's. In those, a good pair of knee pads are a must for a ramper, because there's no enough space to stand up! You're on your knees. And that sucks when you're in rear bin 3, and have to hustle back and fourth on your knees from the door where the bags come up the belt, to the back of the bin 15-20 feet from the door! Also, when the planes land, the bin floor is freezing!

On some of the DL MD-80's I've worked, Delta had electronically controlled rear bins. I think they were called "Carpet Loaders?" They had a "conveyor belt" type floor/bulkhead controlled by a button on the wall by the bin door. The bulkhead wall separating the rear bins from the front bins could be retracted so that the wall was right at the cargo door where the bags came on. The ramper would sit there, receive and stack the bags as they came on-board, then when he ran out of space, he'd just push the button on the wall and the conveyor would move the bags back. He'd load more bags on the belt/floor until he needed more room, and then would just keep repeated the process. It sounds like it would be easier, but a lot of guys didn't like it. We'd just retract the conveyor all the way to the bulkhead before we started loading, and manually carry/push/throw the bags to the rear of the bin because it was faster than doing a dozen bags, and then briefly pausing to push the button and convey the bags deeper into the bin. (The first photo below shows a carpet loader in a DL 737-800)


737/757/A320 are a little more comfortable to work in. You can actually stand up and walk in those, although you might have to duck a little bit.

Widebodies have plenty of space to move about. On those, most bags are put into LD3 style cargo containers before they get to the plane. Cargo, and sometimes even bags may be put on pallets as well. The containers or pallets are then lifted up into the plane by ground equipment and pushed into the bin. The containers have little wheels on the bottoms so they roll easy. In the containers, a single man can push one weighing hundreds of pounds. Widebodies often have bins were loose bags that aren't in containers can be free loaded as well. On 767's, the bin door for this smaller bin is on the rear left bottom of the fuselage.

Delta 737-800 with Carpet Loading bin

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777 Bin


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A330 Bin

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767 Bin

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A340 Bin with Crew Rest Module installed.

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CRJ-900 Bin

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Palette Cargo and Cargo Containers

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Photo © Vasco Garcia (VDG-Images)



LD3 Cargo/Baggage Containers rampside of Air Berlin A330-200

Quoting c5load (Reply 17):
I've always wondered how are bags loaded into the containers? Is there a certain system for catogerizing bags? Example: A 767 from LAX-ATL, are connecting international bags all loaded in one container, connecting domestic bags in one, terminating bags in one? You get the picture.
Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12):
So, is any provision made for bags that are arriving at a final destination vs. ones that are making a connection? I'm especially interested in how this is handled in bulk-loaded aircraft I'm really, really interested in how point-to-point carriers like WN load bags in regards to connections.

With containers, it's s much the same as loading planes without containers. Once your bag disappears behind the check in desk, it's picked up off the belt behind the scenes by a ramper. Instead of being put on a luggage cart to be taken out behind a tug, it's put into a container, and that container is then loaded onto a tug where it's taken out and loaded on the plane.

When I was with Delta, bags were separated into several categories before being loaded. DB, CB, IB, and local.
Domestic bags were bags making connections to domestic flights operated on mainline equipment, CB's were connecting bags be transferred to flights on regional partners like ASA, or Comair. IB's were bags making international connections. Locals were bags terminating at the city the flight was destined to. There were also bags making connections to an entirely different airline, but I've forgotten the abbreviation for those? (They were somewhat rare at my small station)

Once bags were classified, weight and balance had to be calculated for the aircraft. Each bag was assumed/estimated to be 25lbs for calculating purposes. Depending on the load, weight and balance could differ from flight to flight, but ultimately bags were assigned to the proper bin for correct weight and balance for the flight. On the MD-80, there are four bins. 1, 2,3,4. 1 and 2 being accessed by the bin door the closest to the nose. 3 and 4 accessed through the back cargo bin door in the rear. Most often DB and CBs were in 3 and 4 or 3 and 2. Locals and IB's were usually in 1 or 2. However, this could change depending on the total passenger and bag load of a flight. Also, bin 1 and 2 were heated and pressurized. Live animals would go in one of those. Once the plane is loaded and dispatched, the load paperwork would be faxed down-line to the receiving station. It would tell how many of each type bag was on the plane and in which bins. Cargo/mail, live animals, and gate checked bag information for the respective bin would also be included to be sent to the receiving station.





[Edited 2011-01-08 23:07:37]

[Edited 2011-01-08 23:09:01]
 
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airportugal310
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:59 am

Quoting c5load (Reply 17):
Indeed! Or having all the damn golf bags and hard cases in the doorway, so they all slide out at you the second you open the door!

 

See my signature, and insert 'golf clubs' where 'chair' is to see how I feel about that...
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DocLightning
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:45 am

Quoting planenut767 (Reply 5):
On occasion though the ramp doesn't secure the nets properly and the result is a door that won't open.

Don't the doors open outward? Why would that stop the door from opening?
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Starlionblue
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:43 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
Don't the doors open outward? Why would that stop the door from opening?

IIRC Mad Dogs and DC-9s have inward closing doors and there's a sort of net that ensures bags don't sit on the door.
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yeogeo
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:43 pm

Interesting topic!

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 20):
When I was with Delta...

Thanks for the instructive, well-illustrated post, PWM!

Do you (anyone?) have experience with bags marked as F or J? (UA inserts a little orange flag at right angles to the tag for these bags). My suspicion has always been that it's just window-dressing for the passenger at check-in. I've never noticed a consistently earlier arrival at the carrousel at final destination. I wonder if the rampers treat these any differently.

yeo
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c5load
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:09 pm

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 20):
There were also bags making connections to an entirely different airline, but I've forgotten the abbreviation for those?

Those were known as Offline bags, OB.
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RJLover
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:15 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 23):
IIRC Mad Dogs and DC-9s have inward closing doors and there's a sort of net that ensures bags don't sit on the door.

Same with the 737s. Around the area where the doors would swing up and open (to lay 'flush' with the celing), there is a whole bunch of netting that, if secured properly, will prevent bags from blocking the path of the cargo door. As said above, if the nets were not secure and the stack was poor, you could end up with bags fallen against the door and have to spend a good deal of time and effort trying to get it open.

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 20):
737.... are a little more comfortable to work in. You can actually stand up and walk in those, although you might have to duck a little bit.

I don't know which 737s you were working, but the ones I was (NGs and the occasional classic) you sure as heck could not stand! For me, I could be on my feet but I would have to be bent double at the waist! Needless to say, I spent most of my time on my knees.
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KELPkid
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:27 pm

Is WN the only airline that will put your bags on an earlier flight for you if you check in super early? That has happened to me more than once, and I get an overhead page when I arrive at my destination to come to the baggage office and get my bags  
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Dalmd88
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:21 pm

DL had magic carpets installed in the Song757 the 73NG and the MD88/90. All were removed except for the exSong757. The weight penalty and cost of repair didn't offset the reduced loading times and reduced injuries to rampers that were advertised by the manf.
 
rwessel
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:43 pm

Quoting Drfix2fly (Reply 10):
its like that samsonite comercial from the 1980s a giant gorilla jumps up and down on the bags untill they are unloaded at your destination
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:52 am

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 24):
. My suspicion has always been that it's just window-dressing for the passenger at check-in. I've never noticed a consistently earlier arrival at the carrousel at final destination.

It does make a difference at the more reputable airlines (SQ, CX etc)!
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PWMRamper
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:47 am

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 20):
CRJ-900 Bin

A bit misleading, that's a front bin used for Gate Check bags.

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 24):
Do you (anyone?) have experience with bags marked as F or J? (UA inserts a little orange flag at right angles to the tag for these bags). My suspicion has always been that it's just window-dressing for the passenger at check-in. I've never noticed a consistently earlier arrival at the carrousel at final destination. I wonder if the rampers treat these any differently.

Yeah those bags get offloaded to the carousel first (if the agents do what they are supposed to!). I dunno about Priority on connections, I've never worked in a hub.
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:53 am

Quoting RJLover (Reply 26):
I don't know which 737s you were working, but the ones I was (NGs and the occasional classic) you sure as heck could not stand! For me, I could be on my feet but I would have to be bent double at the waist! Needless to say, I spent most of my time on my knees.

Thanks for the clarification.! I never worked 737's, because my station only got MD-88's. However, on occasion passengers would get rebooked on other airlines when we had a mechanical problem or something, and I'd have to bring bags over to the US or UA 737's. I never got inside the bins, but would just walk up to them and turn over the bags to their ramp staff,.So I only got quick peaks inside the bins. They looked slightly more spacious than our MD-80's that you had to be on your knees at all times when in the bins. Seems like I remember there being enough space to at least be on your feet, even if required bending over a bit to avoid hitting your head.

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 24):
Thanks for the instructive, well-illustrated post, PWM!

Do you (anyone?) have experience with bags marked as F or J? (UA inserts a little orange flag at right angles to the tag for these bags). My suspicion has always been that it's just window-dressing for the passenger at check-in. I've never noticed a consistently earlier arrival at the carrousel at final destination. I wonder if the rampers treat these any differently.

yeo

Well, things might have changed a bit? When I worked the ramp it was in 1999-2000. However, I remember the destination tags had some sort of marking on them indicating it was a first class passenger's bag. I do not remember treating them with anymore priority then any other bags. At the time, DL did have Priority tags that were stuck on the destination tag for I believe silver, gold, and medallion passengers who were suppose to have their bags come off first. To my recollection though, they were more decorative items than bags with priority. While they were suppose to be first on the bag claim, often the tag was completely overlooked. The bags might come off first, or might come off last. I also seem to remember DL had a lot of complaints throughout the entire system of passengers with Priority bags complaining that half the time, their bags weren't first off.

Frankly, ramper's treated all bags the same. ROUGH! Thrown, chucked, kicked, tossed, and punched into place. Locks, zippers, and accessories breaking off regularly. We even had one guy who opened one and found homemade brownies. He ate two, then tossed the rest under the drivers seat of the lav truck and they rode around on the ramp for about five months! At my station, we weren't actual DL employees, but contracted employees from a local FBO. I guess this treatment is just getting what you're paying for when you hire a bunch incompetent people off the street for minimum wage, no benefits, long hours, and little respect from the employer. We were just treated like disposable idiots, and most of my co-workers simply didn't care as long as they got their meager paycheck of $240 per week! Turn-over was so high that we could barely stay staffed!. Some of the stuff I saw was completely unacceptable! I found a hydraulic leak in the tail one time prior to departure. Reported it to the superiors and was told to just forget what I saw!

Oh, and just for the record, none of my co-workers on night shift ever stole a few beers from the galley catering guys,drank them and then took a nap in first class seats late at night after work was done and they were waiting for morning shift to come in! Nor did they ever drag race the tugs on the taxiway late at night when nobody was around, or steal ground equipment gasoline for their own car   And of course, it wasn't me responsible for that time I was loading Human Remains on the belt loader, but lost my grip, leaving the HR to fall to the ramp with an audible thud as the body shifted while all the passengers were watching from their seats or the boarding gate! IT NEVER HAPPENED!

Oh, and just to protect the DL pilots... We also never found cigarette ashes in the cockpit, or even that porno mag under the captains seat that one time!

Quoting c5load (Reply 25):
Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 20):
There were also bags making connections to an entirely different airline, but I've forgotten the abbreviation for those?

Those were known as Offline bags, OB.

DUH! Brain fart! Thanks for refreshing my memory!

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 28):
DL had magic carpets installed in the Song757 the 73NG and the MD88/90. All were removed except for the exSong757. The weight penalty and cost of repair didn't offset the reduced loading times and reduced injuries to rampers that were advertised by the manf.

Those things were a pain in the ass! It was harder work without them, but still, it was faster!









[Edited 2011-01-09 22:06:22]
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:00 am

I've gone and dug up my old ramp training manuals. They might provide some more insite into baggage handling? They are a bit outdated, but I'd imagine things haven't changed that much?

Handling of Priority Bags

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs069.snc4/34830_479269761236_681401236_6399132_4277952_n.jpg

Loading Narroowbody flights

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs1366.snc4/163827_479269681236_681401236_6399127_3743032_n.jpg

Loading Widebody flights

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs766.ash1/165792_479269376236_681401236_6399111_2417393_n.jpg

Load Messages to be sent down-line

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs053.snc6/168381_479269576236_681401236_6399125_4942955_n.jpg

Baggage Separation

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs012.snc6/166274_479269511236_681401236_6399121_1404481_n.jpg

Bag Containers and Capacities

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs064.snc6/167464_479269441236_681401236_6399113_6195590_n.jpg
 
Maverick623
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:55 am

Quoting c5load (Reply 25):

Those were known as Offline bags, OB.

At US, the codes are slightly different.

BL are local bags, staying at the destination.

BO are online connections (US mainline flights)

BE are express connections (US express flights)

BC for close connections (less than 45 mins IIRC, although that's really fallen out of favor unless it's a widebody)

BI for interline bags (other airlines)

BP for priority bags (also falling out of favor, as connections don't matter and we can just separate the locals as they come off)

Adding a J to the end of any of those marks it as a gate checked bag (J for jetway), and an H marks it as a heavy bag (for Weight and Balance purposes, a heavy bag is counted as the weight of 2 standard bags).

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 32):
They looked slightly more spacious than our MD-80's that you had to be on your knees at all times when in the bins

Slightly being the key word here. Trying to stand up actually hurts more than just being on your knees.

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 27):
Is WN the only airline that will put your bags on an earlier flight for you if you check in super early?

No. Most airlines allow for bags to be forwarded, at the loadmaster's/team lead's discretion. Remember though that you can't do that with international bags, as they must travel with the passenger (expedite bags obviously excluded).

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 24):
Interesting topic!

As has been said many times before, there's an unbelievable amount of stuff that goes on behind the scenes to make sure people get to their destinations on time, with their luggage (and that's only half the battle).
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
gopal
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:23 pm

Quoting PWM2TXLHopper (Reply 20):
On 767's, the bin door for this smaller bin is on the rear left bottom of the fuselage.

Thanks PWM, for your detailed explanation of the baggage handling process. It was really illuminating. I was just wondering, since the 767 has a narrower fuselage than A330/340/777, it cannot hold two LD3s. Therefore does the baggage handling load one LD3 and the load the bags individually in the remaining space in the hold ?

Thanks for your answers.
 
aklrno
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:36 pm

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 24):
Do you (anyone?) have experience with bags marked as F or J? (UA inserts a little orange flag at right angles to the tag for these bags). My suspicion has always been that it's just window-dressing for the passenger at check-in. I've never noticed a consistently earlier arrival at the carrousel at final destination. I wonder if the rampers treat these any differently.

I'm *G and I can't tell you how many times I've had my bag come down with the first few because of the Priority tag. It's great fun when you are standing among a hundred or two passengers, grab the first bag on the belt and walk off. I mostly fly NZ, UA, LH, and WN. With WN I try to never check anything or I wait 15 minutes.
 
srbmod
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:32 pm

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 7):
True. Then it becomes a pushing and shoving match to try and force it open enough to yank a bag or four out to make it open.

When I worked at AirTran, we had it happen on a regular basis (some of the outstations were notorious for not loading planes correctly).

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 12):
So, is any provision made for bags that are arriving at a final destination vs. ones that are making a connection? I'm especially interested in how this is handled in bulk-loaded aircraft I'm really, really interested in how point-to-point carriers like WN load bags in regards to connections.

This is why I loved working at a hub, as while everything coming off was either local bags or connecting bags. When it came to loading, all of our bags were going to that destination.

When I worked at AirTran, what would suck would be when the rampers at an outstation would mix connecting and local bags together (or mail and connecting bags). When you're running connecting bags, you're trying to get everything into assigned spots on a cart and if the guys in the bin and outside the door are having to put the local bags or mail to the side (sometimes they'd put the mail in front of the locals) in order to access the connecting bags.

At the time I worked for AirTran, they handled Frontier's flights at ATL and if you typically did not work the flight, it was tough to do it because we were all used to all of the bags going to one city. The Frontier agent would come down with a bag chart for each bin on the a/c. From the few times I ever helped load an F8 flight, typically, the mail and either the bags for the city the a/c was slated to go to after DEN were in the rear bins and the locals and connecting bags would be in the front two bins. I think that the location for the local and bags staying on the a/c in DEN could be swapped based on the number of bags.

When I worked at ASA, the only bags coming off of a plane we had to worry about were on-line bags, bags connecting onto another ASA flight. That was the somewhat gravy job on the gate, as I think the most on-line bags I ever had to run at one time was maybe four or five. If there were any, it was typically one bag. Most shifts I was assigned to run on-line bags, I would never have any and as soon as the bags were offloaded, I would go to the bag room to see if they had any bags for the flight (Sometimes the bag runners would drop them off at the bag room if at the time they dropped them off, there wasn't a dedicated cart at the gate for the flight.). Delta would have their bag runners meet the plane (Usually one for each concourse and one for local bags.) and they'd grab them as one of the ASA rampers called out the tag. I remember one time we had a flight come in from MYR in which every bag was headed to MAN. We're talking somewhere in the neighborhood of 75 bags or so coming off of a CRJ-200.
 
b6a322
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:01 am

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 7):

True. Then it becomes a pushing and shoving match to try and force it open enough to yank a bag or four out to make it open.

Indeed, I saw this last september waiting for my DL737 at PHX. Almost made me miss my 30 minute SLC connection too!

As for international, at least on LH Widebodies, they load Biz and First bags into the "bulk" area in the back (no container). Sort of like loading an A320, only its much higher up! These are also the first bags brought to belt. But of course, we all know how much LH loves baggage distribution 
The content I post are my own thoughts, nothing more. :)
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:43 am

Quoting gopal (Reply 35):
I was just wondering, since the 767 has a narrower fuselage than A330/340/777, it cannot hold two LD3s. Therefore does the baggage handling load one LD3 and the load the bags individually in the remaining space in the hold ?

767s use the LD2 container, which is smaller. 747s use the LD1, which is larger than LD2 and LD3.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
pwm2txlhopper
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:21 pm

Quoting gopal (Reply 35):

Thanks PWM, for your detailed explanation of the baggage handling process. It was really illuminating. I was just wondering, since the 767 has a narrower fuselage than A330/340/777, it cannot hold two LD3s. Therefore does the baggage handling load one LD3 and the load the bags individually in the remaining space in the hold ?

Thanks for your answers.

Sorry that I can't give you an answer to that question. I've only worked with MD-80's.
 
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cotparampguy
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:14 am

Quoting Airportugal310 (Reply 7):

I've had a flight come in from EWR where the bags prevented the door from even unlocking to be opened. We needed MX to come out and go through the cabin to enter the bin.

Now that i've switched over to B6, both aircraft have doors that open outwards, so now I don't have to worry about that anymore. 
 
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DocLightning
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:32 am

Quoting cotparampguy (Reply 41):


I've had a flight come in from EWR where the bags prevented the door from even unlocking to be opened. We needed MX to come out and go through the cabin to enter the bin.

How long does that take?
-Doc Lightning-

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Tristarsteve
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:57 pm

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 39):
Quoting gopal (Reply 35):
I was just wondering, since the 767 has a narrower fuselage than A330/340/777, it cannot hold two LD3s. Therefore does the baggage handling load one LD3 and the load the bags individually in the remaining space in the hold ?

767s use the LD2 container, which is smaller. 747s use the LD1, which is larger than LD2 and LD3.

Depends on the airline.
BA uses LD3 for B744 B767 B777.
We only have 250 seats on the B767 and LD3s in the rear hold are sufficient.
Fwd hold is reserved for cargo pallets. We have the large C1 door and can load full size pallets sideways.
Less complex than special containers for each type.
 
planenut767
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:23 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 42):
How long does that take?

It'll take a few hours to do that. You need a least two guys to move that row of seats. Make sure you mark where the seats were to make it easier to reinstall. Plus disconnect all of the seat electrical equipment (IFE) and secure it so it doesn't get damaged. Then remove the carpet in that section and remove the floor board. I don't know about other airlines, but at mine PAX seats are an RII item in our GMM so we need an inspector to witness the reinstallation of the seats (proper position, fastener torques) and to verify they're not damaged and in good working order.
 
gopal
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Joined: Thu Jun 03, 1999 3:05 am

RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:19 pm

This is indeed turning out to be a very informative thread.

I am requesting information on how Airlines track these LD1/2/3/8 containers. What kind of systems do airlines have to track the following information on containers:

a) The inventory of various types of containers available for a particular flight
b) The containers that were sent on a flight to a destination airport
c) Inventory of containers that belong to a "home airport" but are at other airports and their expected date of arrival back.
d) I am assuming that these containers have serial numbers. Is RFID technology used in scanning them in and out of flights ?
e) Are containers assigned to a particular aircraft in that they always used in that aircraft ?

Thanks for your answers.
 
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CrimsonNL
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:11 pm

This is the forward hold of an ERJ-195 for a certain airline. There were so many net sections that it caused loading delays and the divider between 24/23 and 22/21 have been removed.

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/6500/lcnightmare.jpg
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
wn676
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:38 pm

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 46):

I'm surprised that an airline would fit that many nets in there...the FWD bin of an A321 is of similar length and we only use two divider nets plus a door net, though I think it can take four dividers.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
contrails15
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:34 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 42):
Quoting cotparampguy (Reply 41):


I've had a flight come in from EWR where the bags prevented the door from even unlocking to be opened. We needed MX to come out and go through the cabin to enter the bin.

How long does that take?

Didn't happen where I am but one of our down stations I think AUS couldn't get the aft cargo door open because of bags. A/C was a E190. Netting in front of the door wasn't completely on and the bags jammed the actuator. Took mx about 45 mins to open it up. I found this out during our morning briefing as we pretty much got our asses chewed out for 10mins over the incident. I'm thinking it was 10min and not 5 because there were pax bags back there. On a side note, Embraer cargo holds have got to be the most poorly designed holds I've ever seen.
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cotparampguy
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RE: What Happens To Bags Once Inside The Hold?

Fri Jan 14, 2011 2:08 am

It took right around 2 and a half hours. The departure was delayed (GDP, whoda thunk it?) so it didn't affect that side as much as it did the poor inbound passengers. I talked to a 777 captain the whole time who was waiting for his bag since it was stuck in there (Crew bag).

I also feel what you mean about the EMB, contrails. My first day of OJT the Liason told me to watch out for the cage and the first thing I did was smash my head on it. That bin is horrible. Love the Airbus though, I missed working Frontier's.

[Edited 2011-01-13 18:10:43]

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